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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 20:27 
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orudge wrote:
I notice that Transport Scotland have posted an A9 dualling strategy, including a programme document showing their estimated timescales for dualling everything between Perth and Inverness.

The plan looks more than a little bit far fetched. If you're inclined to believe it, don't plan any road trips to Inverness for 2023 - virtually all of the currently undualled sections from Killiecrankie to Inverness will be being simultaneously upgraded. I'll be quite surprised if there's much new dualling north of Pitlochry between now and 2025. I still don't see that this is good value for money compared to other Scottish (let alone British) road projects.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 01:28 
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Mark Hewitt wrote:
I dunno an MSA style place half way between Perth and Inverness would be able to make a living you would have thought?


Broxden To Inverness can be done easily in 3hours, often in 2 (traffic depending) thus many people I know from round Glasgow will, if they are going to stop, use Broxden if in a hurry - Petrol, Maccy D coffee, toilets; or House of Bruar if not in a hurry and wanting a leisurely lunch on the way. If going for the real north, Inverness makes a good stopping point - about 4hrs from Glasgow, before changing pace and road type for the next leg.


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 02:44 
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Having shoulders on S2 and D2 roads would be much safer for cyclists.

Problem with cyclists is that there's no one-size-fits-all, they are all different. The A9 local route seems perfectly fine to be me and something that I would ride, however I can completely understand why a cyclist who clips in and gets their rhythm really doesn't like constant speed changes.

In Australia, we generally have 1 metre or wider shoulders on our higher order roads, which gives those more confident, faster cyclists the option to ride on the road in a bit more safety than sharing a lane.


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 08:10 
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Another death: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-t ... l-18611746


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 08:35 
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Although that accident was on the local road from Stirling to Falkirk, so not really relevant to discussion about the Edinburgh to Thurso trunk road.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 08:47 
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djw1981 wrote:
Mark Hewitt wrote:
I dunno an MSA style place half way between Perth and Inverness would be able to make a living you would have thought?


Broxden To Inverness can be done easily in 3hours, often in 2 (traffic depending) thus many people I know from round Glasgow will, if they are going to stop, use Broxden if in a hurry - Petrol, Maccy D coffee, toilets; or House of Bruar if not in a hurry and wanting a leisurely lunch on the way. If going for the real north, Inverness makes a good stopping point - about 4hrs from Glasgow, before changing pace and road type for the next leg.

2-3 hours, that's the problem for drivers from further south and therefore more tired.

Remembering to stop/rest at Broxden is fine for regular users but few tourists are regulars.

I only know of some of the stopping places by searching the interweb, anorak-style, because they're not obvious when you're travelling on the road as a stranger.

If it's important enough to have MSAs every 15 miles on some English motorways you'd think that the 110 miles from Perth to Inverness would warrant more than it has.


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:12 
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djw1981 wrote:
Mark Hewitt wrote:
I dunno an MSA style place half way between Perth and Inverness would be able to make a living you would have thought?


Broxden To Inverness can be done easily in 3hours, often in 2 (traffic depending) thus many people I know from round Glasgow will, if they are going to stop, use Broxden if in a hurry - Petrol, Maccy D coffee, toilets; or House of Bruar if not in a hurry and wanting a leisurely lunch on the way. If going for the real north, Inverness makes a good stopping point - about 4hrs from Glasgow, before changing pace and road type for the next leg.


It is usually said that one of problems is that a significant amount of the traffic has come from much further South so could have been driving for many hours even if they have had stops further South at Motorway Service Areas. Someone on a first visit might not even realise there is nothing at the roadside after Perth.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:20 
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Ruperts Trooper wrote:
I only know of some of the stopping places by searching the interweb, anorak-style, because they're not obvious when you're travelling on the road as a stranger.


Two that are open until about 2200h (I think) are Ballinuig and the place just down the road to Dalwhinnie.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 19:32 
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Glen wrote:
Although that accident was on the local road from Stirling to Falkirk, so not really relevant to discussion about the Edinburgh to Thurso trunk road.

I think it still counts towards the headline fatality figures though.
Mary Scanlon MSP asked for a the number of personal injury accidents since 2007 between Perth and Inverness.

Fatalities:

2007 - 7
2008 - 5
2009 - 3
2010 - 9
2011 - 7

Giving a 5 year total of 31, and not 67 as Murdo Fraser would have you believe.


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 21:59 
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novaecosse wrote:
Glen wrote:
Although that accident was on the local road from Stirling to Falkirk, so not really relevant to discussion about the Edinburgh to Thurso trunk road.

I think it still counts towards the headline fatality figures though.
Mary Scanlon MSP asked for a the number of personal injury accidents since 2007 between Perth and Inverness.
...


I had a similar thought, if they can add to the A9 total then I am sure they will.

It's old saying that if you repeat a dodgy statistic often enough then it just gets accepted. I was looking at something earlier today when the old myth of Machrihanish having the longest runway in the UK or Europe came up again.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:34 
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J--M--B wrote:
It's old saying that if you repeat a dodgy statistic often enough then it just gets accepted. I was looking at something earlier today when the old myth of Machrihanish having the longest runway in the UK or Europe came up again.

That myth used to be perpetuated on the Campbeltown Airport website! At 3,049m Campbeltown Airport/RAF Machrihanish is simply the longest in Scotland - at 3,901m Heathrow Airport is the longest in the UK - at 5,402m Ramenskoye/Zhukovsky Airport near Moscow is the longest in Europe.

Unless anyone knows of longer ones?


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 16:50 
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Ruperts Trooper wrote:
J--M--B wrote:
It's old saying that if you repeat a dodgy statistic often enough then it just gets accepted. I was looking at something earlier today when the old myth of Machrihanish having the longest runway in the UK or Europe came up again.

That myth used to be perpetuated on the Campbeltown Airport website! At 3,049m Campbeltown Airport/RAF Machrihanish is simply the longest in Scotland - at 3,901m Heathrow Airport is the longest in the UK - at 5,402m Ramenskoye/Zhukovsky Airport near Moscow is the longest in Europe.

Unless anyone knows of longer ones?


How long is it anyway?. EGEC? 10,000 odd feet long?. Elvington was meant to be long but they painted out most of it. I was told the one at Oban EGEO was able to take a BAE 146 but that got painted out. So perhaps this is more than Myth?


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 17:23 
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mehere wrote:
Ruperts Trooper wrote:
J--M--B wrote:
It's old saying that if you repeat a dodgy statistic often enough then it just gets accepted. I was looking at something earlier today when the old myth of Machrihanish having the longest runway in the UK or Europe came up again.

That myth used to be perpetuated on the Campbeltown Airport website! At 3,049m Campbeltown Airport/RAF Machrihanish is simply the longest in Scotland - at 3,901m Heathrow Airport is the longest in the UK - at 5,402m Ramenskoye/Zhukovsky Airport near Moscow is the longest in Europe.

Unless anyone knows of longer ones?


How long is it anyway?. EGEC? 10,000 odd feet long?. Elvington was meant to be long but they painted out most of it. I was told the one at Oban EGEO was able to take a BAE 146 but that got painted out. So perhaps this is more than Myth?

As I posted, Campbeltown Airport is 3049m long and not even close to Heathrow.

Oban Airport is only 1263m long.


Last edited by Ruperts Trooper on Sat Jun 30, 2012 17:26, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 17:25 
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Thanks :). Still quite a long runway for a small airport. Maybe Aer arran should get in there!


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 17:32 
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Still, nothing comes close to Edwards AFB, California at almost 40,000 feet.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 17:40 
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This list gives the lengths of all major runways in the UK - and in English too :p

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 18:35 
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mehere wrote:
Thanks :). Still quite a long runway for a small airport. Maybe Aer arran should get in there!


A C-130 is said to have landed at Oban to check that it could be done. It was thought it was connected with the various other occupants of the ROC Group HQ by the airfield.

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 19:29 
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J--M--B wrote:
mehere wrote:
Thanks :). Still quite a long runway for a small airport. Maybe Aer arran should get in there!


A C-130 is said to have landed at Oban to check that it could be done. It was thought it was connected with the various other occupants of the ROC Group HQ by the airfield.

C-130s can land in a very short space - at minimum weight it can land in 351m (1150'), it's only 616m (2020') at maximum weight - so Oban would have been easy!

RAF Connel Ferry was used by Special Forces who often use C-130s.


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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 20:58 
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Some more notes in the Courier today which may be a repeat of previous announcements. Ternders are being invited for the ground investigation works on the Luncarty to Pass Of Birnam section to start in Spring 2013 estimated costs £.8m to 1.2m with construction starting in 2017 and Kincraig to Dalraddy dualing to start in 2 years - at least it keeps it in the headlines

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 Post subject: Re: A9 Perth to Inverness
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 22:10 
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djw1981 wrote:
Mark Hewitt wrote:
I dunno an MSA style place half way between Perth and Inverness would be able to make a living you would have thought?


Broxden To Inverness can be done easily in 3hours, often in 2 (traffic depending) thus many people I know from round Glasgow will, if they are going to stop, use Broxden if in a hurry - Petrol, Maccy D coffee, toilets; or House of Bruar if not in a hurry and wanting a leisurely lunch on the way. If going for the real north, Inverness makes a good stopping point - about 4hrs from Glasgow, before changing pace and road type for the next leg.


Glasgow -Fort William ( on autoroute =109 miles =approx 2 hours, but in practice a lot less). Fort William-inverness (on autoroutrte =65miles, 1 hour 15 mins, but in practice a bit less). So where does the four hours come from ( unless going up the east coast). Perth -inverness , possibly better to use A9, but Glasgow-Inverness - quickest way is up west coast.


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