Scottish legislation on speed limit signs

[jcpren]

In Scotland, we have 70 roundels on motorways, and NSL signs on non-motorway special roads, which is the opposite to what is seen in other parts of the UK. Previously on SABRE, the legal reasons behind the use of particular signs in England and Wales have been explained, but I can't find a similar explanation for Scottish law. Can anyone add to this?

Another Scottish quirk (according to the Highway Code) is that the automatic 30mph limit on well-lit roads only applies to C- or unclassified roads; not A- and B-roads. In practice, I'm not sure what difference this makes, as I understand that entries to all 30mph limits would still have to be signed on roads in England and Wales, and I'm sure we (usually?) don't get 30mph repeaters in Scotland, even on A- and B-roads with a 30mph limit. Any comments?

[ms90]

In Scotland, we have 70 roundels on motorways, and NSL signs on non-motorway special roads, which is the opposite to what is seen in other parts of the UK.

I would just add that in the last year (maybe longer ago) 70 repeaters have been added every mile or so on the Edinburgh bypass, and the A1 to Dunbar. Both are special roads I believe.

[michael769]

Another Scottish quirk (according to the Highway Code) is that the automatic 30mph limit on well-lit roads only applies to C- or unclassified roads; not A- and B-roads. In practice, I'm not sure what difference this makes, as I understand that entries to all 30mph limits would still have to be signed on roads in England and Wales, and I'm sure we (usually?) don't get 30mph repeaters in Scotland, even on A- and B-roads with a 30mph limit. Any comments?

The main difference is that if signs are wrong or missing the default speed limit may be different, however the rules are fairly complex and the Scottish Executive have issues a lot of special permissions (including some blanket Scotland wide ones), do it's often impossible for the layman (and even the police) to work out if when the signing is illegal.

30mph repeaters are not required on A/B roads unless they have a substantial unlit section.

There is also no requirement to sign a higher speed limit on entries from side roads. Most roads authorities tend to sign anyway, but you will often find that the entries to cul-de-sacs form 40/50 D2's will have a 30 sign at the entrance but no corresponding 40/50s at the other side.

[Dougman]

<snip>
There is also no requirement to sign a higher speed limit on entries from side roads. Most roads authorities tend to sign anyway, but you will often find that the entries to cul-de-sacs form 40/50 D2's will have a 30 sign at the entrance but no corresponding 40/50s at the other side.

I noticed the other day on my way home a side road off a 50 limit that is not signed as a 30. The first 30 roundel encountered is two streets away on the rear of a part time 20 sign. And there are no 50 signs for exiting the side road either.

Just thought I'd share

[Steven]

I understand that entries to all 30mph limits would still have to be signed on roads in England and Wales

This is correct.

[A303Chris]

In Scotland, we have 70 roundels on motorways, and NSL signs on non-motorway special roads, which is the opposite to what is seen in other parts of the UK.

I would just add that in the last year (maybe longer ago) 70 repeaters have been added every mile or so on the Edinburgh bypass, and the A1 to Dunbar. Both are special roads I believe.

Ditto. I noticed, last year, that the A1 and Edinburgh bypass had 70 signs and not NSL signs as well

[ndp]

There is also no requirement to sign a higher speed limit on entries from side roads. Most roads authorities tend to sign anyway, but you will often find that the entries to cul-de-sacs form 40/50 D2's will have a 30 sign at the entrance but no corresponding 40/50s at the other side.

That is the case south of the border too - at a T junction where the minor road has a lower speed limit than a non-NSL major road, only one sign is required on the nearside on the minor road provided there is a repeater within a certain distance of the junction in each direction on the major road.

[cb a1]

I noticed the other day on my way home a side road off a 50 limit that is not signed as a 30. The first 30 roundel encountered is two streets away on the rear of a part time 20 sign. And there are no 50 signs for exiting the side road either.

IIRC you're a fellow Dundonian and catch the 22, so I would guess you're refering to Strathmartine Road heading southbound off the Kingsway?

Other examples in this area are heading northbound into Clive Road and heading into the Retail Park with the large Tescos. No signs whatsoever to tell you that you're no longer in a 50 limit.

[bart]

In Scotland, we have 70 roundels on motorways, and NSL signs on non-motorway special roads, which is the opposite to what is seen in other parts of the UK.

I would just add that in the last year (maybe longer ago) 70 repeaters have been added every mile or so on the Edinburgh bypass, and the A1 to Dunbar. Both are special roads I believe.

Ditto. I noticed, last year, that the A1 and Edinburgh bypass had 70 signs and not NSL signs as well

The 70 roundels at the on-slips have been there for rather longer than a year. I recall them being there since 2003, I think.

[ms90]

The 70 roundels at the on-slips have been there for rather longer than a year. I recall them being there since 2003, I think.

Yes the 70 roundels on the slip roads have always been there (just like most Scottish motorways), along with 70 roundels at the start/end of the route. (ie at Old Craighall, either side of Sherrifhall, and near Calder Junction - it's 50 from Calder to Gogar.)

It's the repeaters that have been added more recently. They are every mile or so, only on the left.

I appreciate the bypass is a "Special Road", but I'm a road geek! To most people using the road, it has green signs, and no motorway symbols at the start, therefore they could assume it just a "fancy" dual carriageway (ie with slip roads, and no right turns) like the A92 from the M90 to Kirkcaldy. Why should one have 70 signs, and the other have none?

[Nick_A34]

I was driving up the A74(M) on Sunday and I don't recall 70 roundels at the border. Therefore would I be able to argue that there is no legal speed limit available to me?

Also, at the end of the A1 expressway and all dual carrigeway sections thereafter there are 60 roundels. However in Northumberland these have been blanked out now. It gets crazier and crazier?

[SuperLez]

The 70 roundels at the on-slips have been there for rather longer than a year. I recall them being there since 2003, I think.

Yes the 70 roundels on the slip roads have always been there (just like most Scottish motorways), along with 70 roundels at the start/end of the route. (ie at Old Craighall, either side of Sherrifhall, and near Calder Junction - it's 50 from Calder to Gogar.)

It's the repeaters that have been added more recently. They are every mile or so, only on the left.

I appreciate the bypass is a "Special Road", but I'm a road geek! To most people using the road, it has green signs, and no motorway symbols at the start, therefore they could assume it just a "fancy" dual carriageway (ie with slip roads, and no right turns) like the A92 from the M90 to Kirkcaldy. Why should one have 70 signs, and the other have none?

For the non-geeks, it is because the A720 has a Special Roads Order passed by the Scottish Parliament - just like "blue sign" motorways, this removes "Right Of Way" status from the road. This means they have to erect 70 mph signs at the beginning of every entry point on to the road - Scottish right of way legislation is radically different from the regulations in England.

This does'nt just apply to speed limits. They can also effectively ban any class of vehicle as they see fit, although it has to be said that signage at the boundaries of the road stating these contingencies would be helpful.

The A92, on the other hand is just a plain old ordinary D2AP road - and accordingly there is no need for these repeaters along the road.