I went out to have a look at this yesterday and took some more pictures. (I recommend opening them up full size to see what I'm talking about properly.)

I don't believe this is a repair job. I think the panels are original, and have been looked after; for whatever reason the rest of the sign face hasn't had the same good treatment.


The letters are as DavidNW9 described: not embossed or cast like very old PW signs, and not heat-treated vinyl overlays like modern signs. However, I have seen other signs made this way before - it looks like they've been screen printed to me. In this picture you can see small scratches that have lifted off some of the ink, showing white underneath. I remember growing up, when signs on council estates in Leeds were all pre-Worboys, saying things like "No Ball Games By Order", seemed to be made the same way. I remember scratching them with my fingernails to see if the lettering would scratch off. (It didn't.)

The panel is not metal, as evidenced by the small cracks appearing at the corners where the rivets have been driven through it. Sheet metal wouldn't do this, but some sort of plastic would.

You can see that the whole sign face has undergone some degree of maintenance: the surround has, at several times in the past, been painted. I doubt that black was its original colour. It has not been painted for some years and it is now flaking away to reveal the sheet metal underneath.


The arrows are made up of two components - a square block and a triangular arrowhead, separately riveted onto the sign face. They appear to be made of the same material as the white panels with destination text on them, and are affixed using precisely the same rivets. They are the same depth as the destination panels (so all three parts are perfectly level against the sign face). It looks to me like the only difference is that they haven't been maintained to the same level as the main panels.


This is the reverse of the arrow shown in the previous photo. The first three rivets on the right hold the arrowhead; the next one (forming a diamond shape with the others) holds the square block; the other rivet is one of those holding the destination panel. All the rivets are identical. The rear of the sign face has been painted black at some point in the past. New signs of this type in rural locations weren't regularly painted, certainly not to the rear of the signface.

Having looked for myself, I don't see how the white panels on this sign can be anything but original. If this was a repair or replacement job, there would be signs of the previous panels having been removed; when the new panels were fitted, the chances that it could be done with new rivets that were precisely the same as the ones used when the sign was manufactured decades earlier are practically zero. Further, the sign face surround has been painted, but not for years - ten years at least, I'd say - and yet the clean white panels have traces of black paint around the edge, so they were in situ when it was last painted. Finally - not shown in the photos, unfortunately - the sign is hanging from mountings that are rusted through, so it would be impossible to take down without cutting through its brackets and impossible to re-mount without fitting new ones. Therefore, if the panels were removed, and new ones riveted in place, it would have to have been done in situ (at a slight angle, in the crook of a road junction, with the sign able to move around slightly on its aged brackets), which seems impractical to the point of impossibility.

I don't know for sure how the sign has come to look this way, but I can offer several theories.
- it has been periodically cleaned, but only the destination panels have had this treatment, allowing the rest of the sign face to deteriorate. Certainly it's had some maintenance - it's been painted at least once - so this isn't at all unlikely.
- the arrowheads are made from (or treated with) a different material that has deteriorated at a faster rate than the destination panels, which gives the illusion that the sign panels are newer.

Taking a slightly different route out of Stamford last weekend I spotted this one on the B1081 Old Great North Road heading towards the A1

http://g.co/maps/7pb5n

Not far from an old fingerboard (just round the corner to the right) is this old pole with a new sign on it. When/why did we stop using the striped poles?

Chris, you have done a lovely job there, although someone did check it just after I asked, and it was raining so hard when I was there that I could barely see it myself let alone stand poking it and get soaked at the same time. But having seen the close ups I have a different view and suggestion. A good number of panel directions were made in enamel, and unlike plastic which is usually self coloured rather than painted over to be permanent, enamel is just baked onto the bare metal and reveals it when it comes off. Now in the close ups you can clearly see spots and scratches both on the edge and on the black letters where it is wearing to show black under it, and the black is wearing to show white under it. Maybe the rivets were all replaced if the panels were, but couldn't imagine why. I think we may have found a new construction method but also would have expected the arrows and panels to be made of the same stuff if made at the same time. If not maybe the clue is they couldn't be the same age?

That tells me if enamel was used they'd go metal, white, black in layers, so when the black wears off you see the white paint and the white you see metal, which is what is here. If it's enamel then it's official, meaning the mystery is why the arrows (which are made of the same stuff) are clearly old, while the panels are clearly a lot newer. Technically you can remake enamel panels ad infinitum, and there is nothing stopping them now. The age of the rivets though is confusing as the back view looks like they were all done at the same time. But as they have cracked around the rivets then it couldn't be enamel as that was on metal. I thought plastic would have melted black characters into a white panel and would be the same all the way through like a stick of rock, but clearly many other ways of doing it. It looks like this may after all be the real thing. The other thing which confused me was the only other enamel sign I've seen didn't have separate panels but was done in one piece for the whole sign face. But the Cockfosters yellow signs were all vinyl on metal backs so presumably many variations on themes now including this one.

I have just been directed to this beauty, one I knew would wreck the camera system as I went at night to miss the traffic and as a result had to use the flash and the reflective sign beneath it deflected it away from the one above. I'll have a crack with the Nero editor later but just a bit darker than it should be. There had been an older one on the other side of the pylons with the earlier font but gone by the time I knew they existed on Saturday. Unfortunately someone had planted leylandii next to it which is now beginning to cover it up slowly. It's in Enfield, I'm amazed no one's found it till now but is on a pretty obscure road.



If anyone passes the one in Stamford with a camera I'd check the back, there could be another one facing the other way as well. The striped poles went the same time as the signs in 1964 except for traffic lights which went in the early 80s and of course zebra crossings, the main excuse was they were too prominent, although they are still used in Ireland for them all.

I've asked to get it posted here directly, but here's an enamel sign, the wear on the edges is identical to the first one, they all go in the same patterns.


Relic by co-ophistorian, on Flickr

So plastic appears similar to enamel, but definitely won't crack the panel. However, another sign was given in Scotland which says it has plastic raised lettering stuck to a panel. It seems the variations were pretty wide and plastic was another method.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63797212@N02/5857838989/

Anyone else remember plastic PW signs?

Found a few more whilst down south. There's this beauty in Somerton:

And a whole host in Bruton at this junction Pan left and there's another above the Escort.
Photos: File:Bruton-pw1.jpg; File:Bruton-pw2.jpg

Has something fallen off this one (near Stone), or is it just a general warning (of what)?

Fenlander, if you keep a sharp lookout, there are quite a few striped poles that look really old around South Holland. I remember when someone repainted the bus-stop near the crossroads on Broadgate in Weston Hill, both post and head. Unfortunately the head has gone missing since Here

I'm seeing them all over the place now this one over the border in South Kesteven I used to drive past a dozen times a week for 10 years.

Oooh, South Kesteven, dodgy territory that! Seem to remember that one was a replacement though, I'm sure the previous one had wodden arms.

EDIT: 'Wodden'? oh dear, I'm typing in Yelloebellie now!

That is a pretty amazing find, and no, nothing has fallen off at all. Before the early 30s warning signs were rarely specified, just a red triangle for everything. A few had a plate underneath with a reason, like 'school' (no graphics though) but these were the usual original warning signs, and this is the only one I've seen outside Scotland which has quite a few. I hope someone gets a chance to take a proper photo as this has managed to survive where few others have.

The Lincs ones aren't pre-Worboys but fingerposts, all thin arrows with no black triangle at the end (the national version) are outside the other direction system and still allowed to make local variations. They also kept stripy poles after 1964 along with zebra crossings.

Is this one?

It sure is, amazing! A visit is calling.

(while I'm here for new arrivals another appeal does anyone remember one before the roundabout by Tolworth station I missed taking a photo of by days?).

Were posts always that decorative in that sign's period, or could we be looking at one of these: http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/images/d/d2/Scott.png

Looks like one, as well as the usual pole many were like those, now we have name and a designer, and here it is.

Here's one in Blackheath, SE London

There you go



I've been dubious about posting signs on maps since many started vanishing within days or weeks after we did, and although most direction sign's locations can be worked out the other type cannot and for all I know if the local council knew where the red triangle sign was tucked away in suburban Surrey they'd see me as their unpaid worker. When you think they were there since before 1963 and then suddenly disappear when people post them online seems more to me than chance, whether councils or thieves, as some have since turned up in boot sales for about £100 each. Better safe than sorry and a shame, although when I do post addresses hardly anyone who collects them seems to live within 50 miles anyway and can always ask me with a message if any of mine do inspire others to go and see them.

It just shows how many are still around, I was just looking through Melrose to locate a photo I took in 1970 and right on the main road was a PW direction with stripy pole looking like new. If anyone's able to get a photo there let me know and will give the spot, I still find posting these things increases the chances of imminent disappearance.

The A1000 arrow in Barnet went to the great scrapyard in the sky a few weeks ago, I pass by it regularly and one night there was nothing there. It was one of the first I took in 2008 and presumably people coming to the end of Lyonsdown Road will still possibly want to know which direction is north as not everyone has a satnav (including me). I'll put it in the wiki now as historical.

You'd at least hope the LA would replace any direction signs it takes down.

How we all laughed.

Indeed, it's embarrassing to be associated with the 'bugger it' attitude expressed by a shockingly large number of LAs.

Crap direction signs give the impression of a crap council, if they don't care about the most visible thing on their highways network, what else do they not care about?