You say that, but i live in London.
I will always take the Severn crossing.
It really isn't worth my time and money to divert up to the M50.
And conisdering how high the population is in the south east, i seriously doubt most would divert up to the M50.

especially as all sat navs would direct you down the M4 also!

The higher Second Severn Crossing Tolls, would - if too much higher - divert people onto the M48. Also, forcing all Newport traffic onto the M48 is a bad idea.

Diverting via Gloucester (or the M50) from London isn't that bad - depends on where you want to go in Wales (and also it's better from some parts of London than others). Then again there's a time penalty and blue-liners wouldn't do it.

With higher tolls on the M4 SSC I'd use the M48 instead, as would many people, including most lorry drivers and everybody travelling to or from Newport. The perception will be that it's a higher toll for the bridge rather that a toll for the bridge + M4. The only way a toll road here would work would be to toll both motorways, which would be political suicide for anyone suggesting it - not least because it would be economic suicide for South Wales.

From anywhere east of Swindon, there comes a point where the cost of the Severn bridges will outweigh the cost of doing a large loop via the A417/A419 and M50.

I favour an partial solution which hasn't been discussed much. This is to close some of the motorway's slip roads through Newport - jcn 25 & 26. having 3 junction in little over 1/2 a mile is not needed.

Another solution would be similar to what they do in europe a lot, build an elevated new section over the old Motorway from the top of the hill after J24 heading west and over the hill over brynglais tunnel negating the need for another tunnel

I cam across this from a blog

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z93/mh____/Newport-M4.jpg

So is a new bridge going to be built over the Usk? ( at the end of corporation rd) ... if so this plan does make some sense.

The SDR is already open with a bridge over the Usk near the transporter bridge?

LOL is it? FFS it hasn't been that long since I last went there has it?

edit... are you sure you looked at the map there and you don't mean the suspension bridge they put up in the early 90's half way down corporation rd?

Bryn is referring to this, an arch bridge opened in the last 10 years which carries the A48 SDR round the south of Newport. There is already a dual carriageway bypass running south of Newport between junctions 24 and 28 of the M4; the new road will just link on to this.

I am absolutely certain that the dual carriageway and bridge over the Usk shown in the map you posted are there and open because I've been over it myself!

Edit: Here is the scheme in CBRD Futures - it was finished in 2004.

Thanks - and yep, I never knew that existed. Amazed. So the Llanwern road will make a difference with that there even though the road from jcn 24 is good.

I would prefer A455 - it's got to be something snappy otherwise people may be discouraged from using it.

Dear God no! People are always suggesting closing junctions as a solution to congestion. It may reduce congestion slightly on the motorway but it would increase it tremendously on city surface streets. There are half a million people in Monmouthshire. How would they access the motorway if all the junctions were closed?

Except as I've already pointed out it dumps you onto the SDR with its roundabouts, traffic lights and 30 limits!

I have lived in Newport why not close some? .. and make the main access to Newport centre & suburbs via the new link road? FWIW I've always thought Newports road network to be bonkers, just full of rat runs and so many alternatives to getting on the M4 yet so many dead ends and such a mish mash of D2's fly-overs, suspension bridge, underpasses etc



But the M4's limt is only 20mph higher...though your point about the roundabout is valid, it needs to be freeflow.

Actually, its back at 70 now

Ah, but which one? [dons asbestos underpants]

Because what do all the people who live north of Newport do? Travel through the city on surface streets to get to the last-remaining open junction? Doesn't that defeat the purpose in having a bypass in the first place?

With Junction 25A being Full access people who live North of Newport can have direct access to the M4 . However, while there may be a case to close one or both of j25 & j26 my comment was to close parts of them. Both 25 & 26 arn't up to standards for such a busy route nowadays.

FWIW NewportMonmouthshire , I was just commenting on what others had suggested and a bit of it made sense... but i'm not advocating it! I can see your POV too

From the BBC

Extract:

New M4 Brynglas tunnels and wider Newport motorway proposed
06 March 12 07:27


The M4 could be widened and two new tunnels built under plans to ease congestion on a busy section of the motorway in south Wales.

Other options include a new dual carriageway to the south of Newport.

The Welsh government is inviting responses to a consultation on a busy 13-mile stretch of motorway which includes a notorious pinch-point at the Brynglas tunnels.

It follows a decision in 2009 to scrap plans for an M4 relief road.

The proposals suggests boring two new tunnels at Brynglas, where the M4 is currently only two lanes in each direction.

Four lanes

The new tunnels would allow the M4 to be expanded to four lanes in each direction for nine miles of the motorway between junctions 24 to 29 over 15 years, at a cost of about £550m.

The options have been drawn up by an expert group, including civil engineers Arup.

Business leaders have warned that traffic jams in the area have been bad for the economy of south Wales.

Last summer traffic was closed in both directions, causing long delays, when a lorry caught fire inside one of the tunnels.

The previous Welsh government dropped plans to build the M4 relief road around Newport because the project was too expensive.

Other ways of easing congestion are now being looked at, with motorists and local people invited to a series of workshops and exhibitions running until 6 June.

Another proposal would see a dual carriageway being built to the south of Newport. Officials said it would be "demand led and built in phases", and that unlike the originally-intended relief road it would not be a motorway.

'Critical infrastructure'

There is also an option for junction improvements on the A48 southern distributor road.

Work started last month on turning an old access road through the Llanwern steelworks into a dual carriageway linking the south of Newport with the motorway.

Keith Jones, director of the Institution of Civil Engineers in Wales, welcomed the plan and said it would certainly help cut congestion in the area.

"Of course it would because that's what we call part of the critical infrastructure of the motorway around there," he told BBC Wales.

"We saw last year the regrettable two fires that caused such a gridlock in the area. Something needs to be done."

I am staggered that they think boring two new tunnels and adding extra lanes will cost less than a whole new motorway link with a single major bridge over the river. Have they factored in the cost of 3-4yrs of 30/40mph speed limits through the works, the cost of all the new structures that would need overnight closures...

Madness !

As I mentioned on the last page it will be expensive and disruptive but it's the only proper long term solution. Short term pain = long term gain

One could argue a southern motorway bypass was the best proper long-term solution, and as you're not having to reconstruct an existing road could end up no more expensive. Untolled, of course