Selly Oak Bypass

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 19171
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

We might as well all go home

Post by Steven »

Chris5156 wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:FOI it if they don't answer.

Someone has either authorised it at DfT (A. Cretin, Esq - explains why they want to offload this responsibility), or B'ham CC have acted ultra vires...
I've drafted another email which I'm going to send, so we'll see. It does specifically ask whether this number has DfT authorisation.
Don't bother with Birmingham City Council - I've finally had a response from them.
Brummie CC wrote:I can confirm that the road number is correct. The changes to the road classification were authorised by the DfT on 16th December 2002
Therefore Birmingham City Council believe that they have authorisation. Which of course brings up another question - did they actually just ask for authorisation to downgrade to Class II, or did they specifically ask for authorisation to use the B38 number?

I will chase that up with BCC, but does someone fancy chasing DfT?
Steven
Motorway Historian

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16909
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by Chris5156 »

Steven wrote:I will chase that up with BCC, but does someone fancy chasing DfT?
Top work. I'll get on to DfT.

Edit: job done. I'll post the reply when I get it.
User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 19171
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by Steven »

Steven wrote:I will chase that up with BCC

Brummie CC wrote:DfT authorised the B38 number


:rolleyes:
Steven
Motorway Historian

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

t1(M)
Member
Posts: 7281
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2002 23:15
Location: kingston-upon-thames

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by t1(M) »

Steven wrote:
Brummie CC wrote:Dft authorised the B38 number


Did they actually say that? the letter quoted upthread simply said they authorised the reclassification, not that they issued the number
User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 19171
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by Steven »

t1(M) wrote:
Steven wrote:
Brummie CC wrote:Dft authorised the B38 number


Did they actually say that? the letter quoted upthread simply said they authorised the reclassification, not that they issued the number
Yes, I asked a follow up query as to "whether they [the DfT] specifically authorised the non-standard B38 number, or whether they simply authorised the downgrade with no advice on the new number to be used".

The sentence above (bar "Steven" at the start, and the BCC contact's name at the bottom) was the entire response to the follow-up query.
Steven
Motorway Historian

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

geo449
Member
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 20:31
Location: Wolverhampton

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by geo449 »

In that case can we rename the A3400 and the B4100 the B34 and B41 respectedly? At this point I dread to think what will happen in the future. Maybe when Leeming Bar to Barton is (eventually) finished the resulting local access road will be called the B1 :roll:
Very rarely here
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16909
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by Chris5156 »

My enquiry to the DfT specifically asks whether - if they did authorise the number B38 - this represents a change in policy with regard to road numbering, and whether the zonal system in use since 1922 has now been abandoned. It was written with the intention that it should give us a view of whether the DfT is aware that a numbering/zonal system exists.
t1(M)
Member
Posts: 7281
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2002 23:15
Location: kingston-upon-thames

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by t1(M) »

Particular potential for confusion as B38 is the postcode for nearby Kings Norton.

(sadly, no E or M roads pass through their respective postcode areas, although M60 comes close - there are no "E" routes within the M25
User avatar
si404
Member
Posts: 10885
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 13:25
Location: Amersham

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by si404 »

Given that they don't know that they made Ellesmere Port a primary destination sometime between 1994 and 2009, I doubt they'd know about things done 90 years ago.
"“Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations" Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
vlad
Member
Posts: 2586
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 16:20
Location: Near the northern end of the A34

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by vlad »

Steven wrote:
Brummie CC wrote:I can confirm that the road number is correct. The changes to the road classification were authorised by the DfT on 16th December 2002
Seriously?

Given that the bypass in its current form wasn't even on the drawing board in 2002, I'm a bit sceptical!

I can understand the Council being given permission to build a bypass and downgrade the old road to B status prior to the lengthy planning that's taken place. However, surely they didn't think all this up that far in advance!

So, when does the A38(M) become the M38? :twisted:
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16909
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by Chris5156 »

Steven wrote:
t1(M) wrote:
Steven wrote:Dft authorised the B38 number

Did they actually say that? the letter quoted upthread simply said they authorised the reclassification, not that they issued the number
Yes, I asked a follow up query as to "whether they [the DfT] specifically authorised the non-standard B38 number, or whether they simply authorised the downgrade with no advice on the new number to be used".

The sentence above (bar "Steven" at the start, and the BCC contact's name at the bottom) was the entire response to the follow-up query.
The plot thickens!

I've just had a reply from the DfT - my original message was quite detailed, and the reply is relatively short, but gets right to the bottom of what I was asking.
DfT wrote:Dear Mr Marshall,

You recently wrote to us asking about the status of the 'B38' in Birmingham.

You are quite right that B38 is a non-standard number, and does not match normal practice in road numbering. We are aware of the issue, and are in discussions with the local council to correct this.

Yours sincerely...
Good news! :bounce:
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by Chris Bertram »

SABRE srikes again! Well done, Chris. Can't wait to see it go.

Now, can we raise the A3400, A4600, A4601, B4666/7/8/9, A42, and all the other out-of-zone anomalies?
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 19171
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by Steven »

Chris Bertram wrote:A4601
A4601 is now OK, since it was extended south of A5 to meet the new bit of A460 that runs parallel to M6 Toll.
Steven
Motorway Historian

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris5156 wrote:I've just had a reply from the DfT - my original message was quite detailed, and the reply is relatively short, but gets right to the bottom of what I was asking.
DfT wrote:Dear Mr Marshall,

You recently wrote to us asking about the status of the 'B38' in Birmingham.

You are quite right that B38 is a non-standard number, and does not match normal practice in road numbering. We are aware of the issue, and are in discussions with the local council to correct this.

Yours sincerely...
Good news! :bounce:
Glad to see they're on the case. How lazy is B38 for a number?! I propose something like B4938 - the Wiki implies that number is free.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 19171
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by Steven »

Bryn666 wrote:I propose something like B4938 - the Wiki implies that number is free.
Yeah, it's a bit high, though. B4123, B4134 or B4139 are all defunct and originally in Birmingham, so I'd prefer one of those to be recycled.
Steven
Motorway Historian

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!

User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by Chris Bertram »

Steven wrote:
Chris Bertram wrote:A4601
A4601 is now OK, since it was extended south of A5 to meet the new bit of A460 that runs parallel to M6 Toll.
OK, knock that one off then. I don't find myself in the Cannock area very often these days.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by Bryn666 »

I was going for the fact it seems BCC are wedded to having a 38 in there somewhere, but I'm sure recycling is much greener and more in line with their policies :wink:
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: We might as well all go home

Post by Chris Bertram »

Steven wrote:B4123
Might be a bit too close to the A4123 for comfort.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
geo449
Member
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 20:31
Location: Wolverhampton

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by geo449 »

I can imagine the "meeting" at BCC:

Councilor A: So, what number shall we give the old road?
Councilor B: B38?
Councilor A: Great! Pub time!

Still, this is good news. Hopefully it'll mean it gets a proper number. It also proves that at least TfL know their stuff.

So, when will the B4100 get a proper non-stupid number? ;)
Very rarely here
User avatar
Nic
Member
Posts: 6517
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 22:39
Location: Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Selly Oak Bypass

Post by Nic »

Maybe it could become the A38(B)
Nic
Post Reply