Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

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Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Yes - pedestrians only
7
20%
Yes - pedestrians and bicycles
3
9%
Yes - pedestrians, cycles, and trams
11
31%
No - leave as is
9
26%
No - open to all traffic
5
14%
 
Total votes: 35

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Christhebull
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Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Christhebull »

Oxford Street is being pedestrianised on the 27th of November (this Saturday) for the "Very Important Pedestrian" day. This made me think of my numerous visits to London and how awful the traffic is. I'm not the only person that's noticed.

You can either get stuck at 2 mph in a crowd on the pavement; stuck at 3mph on a bus (until a taxi pulls over in front of it, holding you up); or achieve the whopping speed of 15mph on a bicycle, until you decide that you would rather not filter through a 3 foot ride gap between buses (risking collision with oncoming cyclists) and decide to stop.

The "new" diagonal crossings at Oxford Circus (as opposed to the old one in Balham), now with countdown timers are an improvement, but on Regent Street, the D1 approach from the north makes it impossible to filter past buses. There aren't even any ASLs, presumably a tacit acknowledgement that to provide them would be pointless as it would be used as part of the pedestrian crossing space or as a taxi stop line, and it would be very difficult to access them anyway.

So do we think Oxford Street should be pedestrianised? Obviously bus services *would* be affected, but I doubt passenger counts are that high anyway. As for taxis, aside from the fact that much of the pollution and congestion in London results from them, I believe most drivers prefer to avoid Oxford Street anyway.
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Bryn666
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Bryn666 »

Pedestrianisation of Oxford Street has been suggested on numerous occasions since the 1960s - I can only imagine there are serious logistical problems to it.

Whatever happened to the 'high speed' lane for pedestrians?
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christopherwk
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by christopherwk »

What will happen to:

Deliveries?
Refuse collection?
Emergency vehicles?
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si404
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by si404 »

christopherwk wrote:Deliveries?
Refuse collection?
Emergency vehicles?
You keep cross roads open, allow emergency vehicles to drive along the pedestrian zone (preferably down the middle using the space set aside for cyclists (which is essential, IMO) and have refuse collection and deliveries that can't happen via other roads, go along in the small hours, having a 5am-12am pedestrian only, and then at night an access only restriction.
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Tom
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Tom »

Christhebull wrote:Obviously bus services *would* be affected, but I doubt passenger counts are that high anyway.
Really? Oxford Street is a major hub for buses. I haven't lived in London for a few years now but I seem to remember that when Oxford Street is closed, and buses are diverted down Wigmore Street etc, the traffic is absolutely awful.

But that's not to say that the buses couldn't be diverted somewhere else. I'm at a loss to suggest where there'd be capacity though. Or maybe terminate them at Marble Arch and TCR station from each side.
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Christhebull
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Christhebull »

Tom wrote: But that's not to say that the buses couldn't be diverted somewhere else. I'm at a loss to suggest where there'd be capacity though. Or maybe terminate them at Marble Arch and TCR station from each side.
Well that is what would happen if trams ran along Oxford Street, something the last mayor was rather keen on.
Bryn666 wrote: Whatever happened to the 'high speed' lane for pedestrians?
Like this? Maybe someone thought that trying to impose traffic control on pedestrians wouldn't work. An airport style travellator would be nice, but that would create a barrier for people wanting to cross the street.
si404 wrote:
christopherwk wrote:Deliveries?
Refuse collection?
Emergency vehicles?
You keep cross roads open, allow emergency vehicles to drive along the pedestrian zone (preferably down the middle using the space set aside for cyclists (which is essential, IMO) and have refuse collection and deliveries that can't happen via other roads, go along in the small hours, having a 5am-12am pedestrian only, and then at night an access only restriction.
Most pedestrianised areas allow access at certain hours for access, often controlled with rising bollards (like at Leicester Square). Cyclists could simply ride round the bollards (and then try and find somewhere to park).
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ChrisH
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by ChrisH »

This is something I would love to see happen, but my enthusiasm has been waning a bit recently. It seems obvious to:

1. Terminate buses at either end which currently terminate near the other end
2. Divert remaining buses onto Wigmore Street
3. Sod the taxis
4. Pedestrianise 8am-8pm
5. Resurface with hard-wearing material suitable for delivery vehicles

I would forget the tram idea, as the problem is capacity for pedestrians caused by vehicles in the carriageway. Reducing the number of vehicles provides a slight aesthetic improvement but no more.

However – the key issue must be traffic on Wigmore Street. I haven’t seen any figures but I walk along there regularly and there is quite heavy traffic most of the day (especially during the peaks). There is also a lot of commercial frontage and kerbside parking which slows things down; a lot of cyclists in a narrow-ish carriageway; and a lot of residential (yes, really) above the shopfronts. It would be lead balloon time for them if all the buses suddenly went down there!

Having said all that, the fact that it’s done for one day a year shows that it is possible, even if not currently feasible as a permanent solution.
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Bryn666
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Bryn666 »

Traffic In Towns had a drawing of a proposed elevated travelator and pedestrian skyway with cross bridges onto frontages. However, I dare say it would have looked bloody awful and support structures in the centre of Oxford Street would have stymied capacity below.

Ultimately, you'll never sort it out short of demolishing lots and redesigning it for crowds of people.
Bryn
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si404
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by si404 »

What's wrong with sending at least some of the buses along Brook Street/Grosvenor Street (keeping them as one-way roads) to the south, leaving Wigmore Street for the taxi diversion?
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Ritchie333
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Ritchie333 »

I voted "leave as is" principally because I'd be concerned about buses, specifically the night bus service that runs after the tube shuts down, for pretty much the same reason that ChrisH gave.

As an aside, I notice Google Maps now marks Oxford Street as unclassified. While this would correlate with common sense, I don't believe I've heard it being officially declassified as part of the A40.
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WHBM
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by WHBM »

A thing you notice if you look inside all the buses jammed along Oxford Street, they are carrying very light loads. Many appear to be near-empty. It is a huge waste of bus capacity.

This is principally due to the way London's buses were privatised, because previously the major routes used to operate right across the central area, from bus garages at either end. Nowadays they have all been restricted to being operated from one end as companies do not have a spread of bases across the city, and it is seemingly insuperable for two companies to share a route from two bases. So you get buses from the west operating through Oxford Street, with progressively lighter loads until they get to a newly introduced central terminal. Meanwhile those from the east do the same, overlapping, making twice as many bus journeys along Oxford Street as necessary.

You can see this also in the number of bus routes that now terminate in the side streets behind Oxford Circus, causing all sorts of congestion and complains there. This never used to happen, bus routes ran right across the centre.

Because of the congestion you then get self-fulfilling diversion of passengers; because the bus takes so much longer to do say Marble Arch to Aldwych than previously, it becomes more worthwhile to go on the Underground and do some walking at the end.

Next time you are looking at the great congestion along there, count the actual passenger loads, or lack of them, inside.
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Truvelo
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Truvelo »

WHBM wrote:A thing you notice if you look inside all the buses jammed along Oxford Street, they are carrying very light loads. Many appear to be near-empty. It is a huge waste of bus capacity.....Next time you are looking at the great congestion along there, count the actual passenger loads, or lack of them, inside.
A quick look on GSV shows this :@
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MJN
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by MJN »

I thought that the routes had been shortened because the sheer length of some of them meant that they got caught up in innumerable jams per trip, with all the consequent problems with maintaining an even service.

Do daytime buses down there even have running boards or do they just get told when to set off by controllers? I think there are 'official' timetables but I've never quite worked it out.
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by Mark Hewitt »

There was the same issue with Northumberland Street in Newcastle. Of course it used to be the A1, then became buses only and I remember as a small child my Mum holding onto my hand very tightly as we squeezed along the pavement with double decker buses alongside.

They then pedestrianised most of it in the 80's / early 90's and in the late 90's pedestrianised all of it, and it transformed it into a nice open shopping street, it's that busy along its entire length now that traffic being allowed is almost unimaginable.

As for deliveries, well most of the shops have loading bays at the back, but every day before 9.30am delivery lorries are allowed to drive up the street.
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poshbakerloo
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Re: Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

Post by poshbakerloo »

pedestrians, cycles, and trams

Have the trams down the middle!
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