Isn't Circular 01/2008 the latest? It also disallows sale of alcohol, to include lodges and conference facilities and states what is and what isn't an MSA or TRSA.

Its typical Britain - the law is an ass - clearly states no alcohol to be sold from an MSA in the shop or the lodge but out there on the road Ive seen alcohol being sold at Westmoreland and also at a lodge on the M1. Ive found out speaking to the government that there are several MSA's that sell alcohol....some quirk in the law seemingly.

Are you talking about Junction 38 truck stop? I don't think that has ever been a proper MSA as such, it just gets signed from the motorway.

Debaser's link is to a DfT policy document. I don't believe that is the 'law'.

Nope it was westmoreland southbound M6 mainline - spirits on sale behind the counter.

I thought a policy document would be adhered to - didnt think they could pick and choose what they want.

Grey area indeed, very murky !

They also charge you to use the loos and the Autobahn!

Belgian MSAs sell beer with food (and charge for the loos too as it happens), didn't imbibe and still managed to get on the wrong side of the road in the car park afterwards...

I forgot - I did know the answer to this!

Various licensing acts have prevented the sale of alcohol on sites "purchased by the Secretary of State for the purpose of becoming a motorway service area".

Privately owned services, which began in 1992, are not covered, so instead the MSA policies have covered it. Circular 23/92 said that an MSA can only be signed if it doesn't sell alcohol, but this appears to have been superseded by another signage policy which doesn't say that. Instead, a later policy (I don't have time to check which one right now) made it a requirement of planning policy that MSAs don't sell alcohol, but this can only be applied to new developments.

....erm are you sure you are talking about Autobahns (the pucker German article that is) as apart from the odd bridge and tunnel they do not have tolls - just like the UK.

I might start a flame war here, but!!!

Realy...

Someone spots alcohol being served at a MSA and its, how dare they, check the government for the rules, should you tell on them to the press, its forbidden in rule 123454 dash 4, section 11, paragraph 3.

So what. So it might be served with a meal, perhaps your staying at a lodge and want a night cap.

It might encourage drinking... then you have to ban alcohol sales at every out of town restaurant, eg frankie and bennys and 99% come by car, perhaps even a roadside pub/restaurant eg Harvester.

In the meantime I've never come across such a petty set of posts looking to try and get someone into trouble. You contacted the government for pitys sake.



SJ

The idea that banning alcohol sales in certain places can actually make any difference to alcoholism or drink-driving is preposterous.

Like all forms of addiction or substance-abuse, there's much deviousness involved in buying these illicit substances - besides it's much easier to drive to the nearest 24 hour Asda/Morrisons/Sainsbury/Tesco than to get on a motorway and drive to a MSA.

So I have to agree with Sarah that there's a lot of pointless indignation that rules are being broken.

There was an example once on the board of a travel hotel which was only accessible from the motorway, no other access roads.
Definitely no chance of a nightcap there. Suppose it stops those overdoing it, even staying, and driving on the motorway first thing next day.

Is this not a moot point? An MSA would charge around £10 for a four pack of beer, if current prices for other things are a guideline.

Did the same when I stopped at one between Brussels and Luxembourg a couple of years ago. Could not believe it selled wine , beer etc. I did n't drink any alcohol, but the wife had a glass of wine. However got back in the car and given I had been on the motorway all the way from Calais, proceeded to leave the car park on the wrong side of the road. Easy done.

Not when 5 coaches with loads of Chelsea fans on the way to Munich arrived at Baden Baden services at 6am in the morning last month. After spending 8 hours on a coach through northern and eastern France, with no change, one person pay the charged and kept the gate open. A German cleaner was most annoyed.

Even fuunier was 3 hours later just outsided Munich, where the drivers stopped again to fill up so they could get away quicker after the match. Same problem but a police officer said do what the germans do and go in the woods next to the service. Quite funny seeing 200 hundred men between 8 and 80 have a mass wee. The ladies were not so lucky.

Good weekend that, Chelsea won the CL and I go to see large areas of the French and German motorway system I had not been on.

Its not about getting someone into trouble -

The fact is that drink is banned from sale at motorway service stations - that is the rule, the fact that we have it now on open sale at some locations means that someone somewhere has been clever with the rule book and found a loop hole.

This was explained in discussion with the government regarding the sale and consumption of alcohol. The previous post a wehile back was myself about alcohol being on sale from a service station lodge on the M1 - again as it quite clearly states that there is to be no alcohol to be sold on the motorway.

Again on this case the law was worked around - the lodge access was from external to the motorway and not classed as part of the services this is so they could apply get a licence and then sell alcohol. Fraid its something that I disagree with totally - alcohol is banned in the majority of cases from the motorway and this ban should remain.

I wont flame anyone you are entitled to your own views on this. I speak as a person who went through an accident as someone was driving while under the influence, so I abor any sale of alcohol from a motorway.

Let's not lose SABRE's status as a safe haven for pedantry please!

So everyone should be banned from doing something because of one idiot? Was the accident even on a motorway? If so, the ban's clearly not stopped it from happening.

Keep the ban in the shops if you must, but is there any harm in an MSA's accomodation having a bar for guests only?

I got a reply and its kinda making me think that the licensing laws regards to motorways have changed....

find attached letter for the response

Hold on, you asked them to remove signs pointing to services that might sell alcohol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


me

SJ