IRL: Removal of roundabouts now national policy

Glenn A · **Posted:** Wed Jun 27, 2012 18:14

Enceladus wrote:

Glenn A wrote:

PeterA5145 wrote:

Seems like a very retrograde step to me - with low to moderate flows, roundabouts work very well and avoid the needless delay caused by traffic lights.

Hear, hear, except at very busy roundabouts where lights aid safety, or in built up areas where a new roundabout to replace a light controlled junction would be impractical( crossroads in town centres), roundabouts make more sense than light controled junctions. I could imagine if a city the size of Newcastle, which is a similar size to Cork, decided to go backwards to the fifties and ripped out roundabouts and replaced them with traffic lights. All this would cause would be immense congestion, accidents as people would try to jump the lights, more police resources dedicated to policing junctions and a lot of ill feeling. Also should Ireland now announce, as they're no longer the Celtic Tiger, that the motorways are to be closed and grassed over, S2s are to make a huge comeback to take their place and the country is going back to the seventies.

Now now...let's not give the muppets in Leinster House any ideas!!

Ho ho,you'll be having Charlie Haughey back in power and one RTE television and radio channel back. However, for all Ireland in the seventies looks primitive by today's standards, you actually had a busy little car industry assembling Chryslers and Fords for the domestic market which no longer exists. Yet that's another story, but surely doing away with roundabouts will be like moving Ireland back into the motoring dark ages.

Johnathan404 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 14:39

There has been an unofficial policy for Portsmouth to replace roundabouts with traffic lights for years now, and I suspect it is the trend nationwide across Britain too.

I know a roundabout I think would work better as a set of lights - where do I vote for it?

Richardf · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 15:26

Johnathan404 wrote:

There has been an unofficial policy for Portsmouth to replace roundabouts with traffic lights for years now, and I suspect it is the trend nationwide across Britain too.

I know a roundabout I think would work better as a set of lights - where do I vote for it?

I an sure there are many cases where switching from roundabout to traffic lights would improve things and vice versa. Can think of a couple in my home town for starters.

vlad · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 19:39

Johnathan404 wrote:

I know a roundabout I think would work better as a set of lights - where do I vote for it?

Just give it long enough and they'll signalise the roundabout - then you get the worst of both worlds!

Glenn A · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 19:55

vlad wrote:

Johnathan404 wrote:

I know a roundabout I think would work better as a set of lights - where do I vote for it?

Just give it long enough and they'll signalise the roundabout - then you get the worst of both worlds!

However, on very busy roundabouts such as the West Denton roundabout in Newcastle, traffic lights are essential to prevent accidents and improve the traffic flow. Yet on moderate/lightly used roundabouts they would be a folly that, as you say, would be the worst of both worlds. Also closer to home a set of traffic lights that were almost redundant following a by pass and which were often jumped as there was so little traffic were sensibly replaced by a mini roundabout, same as the lights on the A595/A596 junction were torn down and replaced by a roundabout on the Distington by pass.

bothar · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 21:15

The point is that roundabouts are suited to some junctions with some volumes of traffic, other locations are unsuitable.

Is this the offending roundabout in Cork.

It seems quite suitable for a roundabout. Only 3 arms, plenty of space.

Storm2 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 21:38

bothar wrote:

Only 2 arms, plenty of space.

Unless I have dodgy counting skills or a complete lack of understanding roundabouts then I count 3. Typo?

bothar · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 21:48

Quote:

Unless I have dodgy counting skills or a complete lack of understanding roundabouts then I count 3. Typo?

Yes. 2 is right beside 3 on my keyboard.
But your counting skills might have found 4 as there are private entrances on the other side.

Storm2 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 17:01

bothar, is this the fourth arm?

Trebeck · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:19

Meanwhile, in the North

Some NIMBYs are gurning about the introduction of a roundabout here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18718478

BBC News wrote:

Craigantlet residents object to rural roundabout
By Claire Savage BBC News
Craigantlet road The Road Service says a roundabout would cut out the need for right turns

Residents of a rural part of north Down have raised objections to plans for a roundabout on a commuter route between Belfast and Bangor.

The Roads Service wants to tackle rush-hour traffic jams at the junction at Craigantlet, between Whinny Hill and the Ballymiscaw Road.

It says 18,000 motorists use the route every day, and it plans to build two large roundabouts with four lanes of traffic in between.

Stephen Pollock from the Roads Service said it would improve road safety by getting rid of the need for a right turn onto a busy road.

"All the traffic will have to slow down on the approach to the junction, and importantly, it allows traffic to get out of one particular road, whereas at the moment it is queuing at the expense of minor road traffic," he said.

However, local resident Mark Shields said: "Strategy documents and policies say rural areas should be protected, and the Roads Service haven't given enough thought into integrating this scheme into the area."
'Pros and cons'

His mother, Jean, agreed, saying she thought it was "totally unnecessary in a country area".

"Maybe they could try traffic lights for a while to see how it works," she said.
Angry residents Some local residents say there is no need for a roundabout

Mr Pollock said this was not appropriate for the junction, as "traffic signals would do little to reduce speed on the approaches, and there's poor visibility because of the hilly terrain".

He said they had carried out an environmental survey and the Planning Service would "have to weigh up the pros and cons".

The aim of the £2m project is to cut journey times by three to five minutes.

Another resident, Dawn Fox, said: "Traffic is only backed up Monday to Friday for an hour and a half in the morning and evening - for three hours a day, this is overkill."

Roads minister Danny Kennedy is to meet politicians about the issue next month.

PeterA5145 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:25

Quote:

Another resident, Dawn Fox, said: "Traffic is only backed up Monday to Friday for an hour and a half in the morning and evening - for three hours a day, this is overkill."

By most standards that's pretty severe congestion

Trebeck · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:51

PeterA5145 wrote:

Quote:

Another resident, Dawn Fox, said: "Traffic is only backed up Monday to Friday for an hour and a half in the morning and evening - for three hours a day, this is overkill."

By most standards that's pretty severe congestion

I was thinking that. According to Roads Service:

Quote:

The aim of the £2m project is to cut journey times by three to five minutes.

3 to 5 minutes is a drop in the ocean in a queue of an hour and a half. If it's taking that time they'd be better using the A2.

si404 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:36

I think the person meant that the queues exist for an hour and a half, not that they are an hour and a half long.

Trebeck · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 13:05

"Maybe they could try traffic lights for a while to see how it works," she said.

So then you'll have traffic on mainline stopped, filter left, filter right etc.

For the staggered crossroads perhaps one of those Spanish style junctions that is almost like a hamburger roundabout, where the mainline crosses the middle but other traffic to/from side roads and those wishing to turn right go onto the "roundabout" part.
Then there are just 2 phases - Mainline and the "roundabout" part.

Bryn666 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 13:11

A jughandle!

They look pretty but can be horrendously awkward when signalised; better as priority junctions on low turn-movements with a history of rear-end collisions probably.

AndyB · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 20:08

It would be extremely helpful to do this. The amount of traffic coming up Dunlady Road and, in the evenings, Whinney Hill, cause the problems, together with traffic crossing between Whinney Hill and Holywood Road.

It is fair to say that this is a great place to have roundabouts, because while most traffic certainly goes between Ballymiscaw Road and Craigantlet Road, there is enough traffic in all directions to stop them from being dominated. In reality, more traffic would be helped than would be hindered.

I would assume that traffic from Ballymoney Road would face a compulsory left turn to use the Dunlady Road roundabout.

The woman wanting traffic lights missed another point. Roundabouts only need the street lighting circuit to be extended to a few illuminated bollards. Traffic lights need a lot more electricity.

nirs · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 21:21

Poorly written article - the actual proposal is for two roundabouts at two adjacent junctions, connected by a few hundred yards of S4 link road.

The congestion here is bad, although for me the safety aspect is just as bad. Some people hurtle through the staggered crossroads with no regard for the multiple turning traffic movements and limited visibility.

The suggestion of traffic signals is silly, as others have explained. If these people stopped to think about it, could they name even one rural B-class road that has traffic signals in the middle of the countryside?

Roundabouts make far more sense here, and I'm all for the construction of the two planned roundabouts.

However, I would agree with one thing the residents say - I can't really see any good reason to join the two roundabouts with an S4 link road. Yes, in an urban setting this would be an appropriate way to smooth flows that bit more. But this is quite a sensitive rural location. From looking at Roads Service's plans I can't really see how an S2 link road would really be much of a disadvantage, and it would be more in keeping and scale with the local area.

I've stuck up a copy of Roads Service's plans on my web site here: http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/craigantletupgrade.html

nowster · **Posted:** Fri Jul 06, 2012 00:37

Bryn666 wrote:

A jughandle!

They look pretty but can be horrendously awkward when signalised; better as priority junctions on low turn-movements with a history of rear-end collisions probably.

When was this one (A580/A572) put in? http://goo.gl/maps/1fnb

I seem to remember it being there in the mid-1970s.

Trebeck · **Posted:** Fri Jul 06, 2012 09:28

There are other dangerous NSL staggered crossroads.

For example on the Ballygowan -> Belfast road, this junction and these junctions.

Drivers trying to get onto the mainline often feel frustrated by the stream of commuter traffic that they end up taking risks. I've seen a fair few near misses along this road!

nowster wrote:

Bryn666 wrote:

A jughandle!

They look pretty but can be horrendously awkward when signalised; better as priority junctions on low turn-movements with a history of rear-end collisions probably.

When was this one (A580/A572) put in? http://goo.gl/maps/1fnb

I seem to remember it being there in the mid-1970s.

Strangely enough, I was on that exact junction just outside Manchester a couple of weeks ago, and wondered why they aren't more widely used!
Seems like a good idea, take the flow of a roundabout and use it to reduce the sequence of traffic light signals to 2 phases.
They love it in Spain. Why do we not here?

Ruperts Trooper · **Joined:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 13:43 **Posts:** 156

vlad wrote:

Just give it long enough and they'll signalise the roundabout - then you get the worst of both worlds!

That's a fact!

Why do highway authorities rarely seem to use demand sensors or peak hours only use?

It's so frustrating, and environmentally unfriendly, at 6am on a Sunday morning when you're the only vehicle for miles but you still have to wait at lights several times as you go round it.

I know that roundabouts don't flow well at peak times - which is a driver issue not a highways issue - but why on earth can't they let roundabouts do what they're good at in low and medium traffic flows.

And why do they paint lane directions on the road? If there's little traffic it doesn't really matter which lane you're in and if traffic is heavy you don't know you're in the wrong lane until the very last minute.

I can't believe that highways engineers plan these schemes - they must simply be obeying instructions from dumb politicians.

Rant over !!

IRL: Removal of roundabouts now national policy

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