Looking at OSM, it seems like the East End Regeneration Route is pushing quite a bit of renumbering of the area. While it is a bit annoying, it must have made some sense to wait until the EERR is built and those numbers change to change numbers in the area that could have been changed with the M74.

But some stuff could have happened - a spur of the A728 to M74 J1A, given that road will become A728, along with the EERR.

Easy enough just get a private members bill through "The M74/A74(M) Renumbering Bill":

Clause 1. Wherefore the numbering of the road between the M6 and M8 shall be reserved to Her Majesties houses of Parliament in London

Clause 2. The aforementioned road shall be designated as a special road and motorway, and numbered and signed as the M6.


Job done. Er I'll get my coat

The key difference there is that "route 90" still runs Edinburgh—Perth—Fraserburgh, and "route 876" still runs Longcroft—Kincardine. The route in question may change between motorway and A-road, and in other corridors the "route" can encompass an A-road and motorway running in parallel, but it's still one route.

"Route 74" runs Glasgow–Carlisle(ish), which is made up of M74 and A74(M). Even if the southern section was corrected to M74 ( ), that wouldn't allow the defunct number A74 to then be used on a different route, like Edinburgh—Abington, because then there would be two different Route 74s, and that isn't allowed.

It's not specifically forbidden, motorway numbering is not subject to any rules other than the zonal system.

Motorway numbering in Scotland has different rules to England (it may not be in statute, but by custom and practice the rules are followed without fail).

Except that the UK Parliament has no power to do that since it is a matter devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

Actually it does as The Supremacy of Parliament was retained. Clause 1 of the renumbering bill would have to be written so as to specifically amend the relevant schedule of the Scotland Act though.

That's what clause 1 is about, surely? As the Scottish Parliament's authority is devolved from Westminster, it gets its power from Westminster and Westminster can remove some of that authority when it wants to - new bills that are passed revoke older legislation that they contradict.

Of course, this is an entirely wrong-headed way of dealing with the issue - both in that the more local assembly doesn't delegate upwards, and that you need primary legislation to change a road number (look at how the American roadgeeks like I-99, three I-69 branches in S. TX, even more logical/standard numbers that were defined by law like I-73 and I-11).

Certainly it would be hard to get time for the debate needed (even if you get an MP onside), let alone get it to pass. And certainly the removal of devolved powers will make for a fun case in the Supreme Court (who will only accept it due to it being a test case on that issue).

Not to mention the fact that being seen to be riding roughshod over devolution would probably hand Salmond an independent Scotland on a plate, something I suspect few in Westminster would be willing to risk over a road number that precisely 0 voters care about.

But the Scotland Act 1998 was enacted on the outcome of a referendum of the electorate, so revoking parts of that in a private members bill (or anything else other than a referendum) would be about as democratic as the legislature of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

I did say that it's wrong headed, as it should be that the authority goes people->local government->bigger area government. Instead they went bigger government->smaller government, people->bigger area government (but only as they let them) and people->smaller government.

Don't blame me for the failings of the Constitutional problems of this country. I didn't suggest the bill either, all I did was give a few home truths that you, as someone already on Salmond's side, would hate - and other Scots, as Michael pointed out would quickly come to Salmond's side if the home truths were revealed.

If 0 voters cared about it then it could comfortably be changed, but change it in the manner suggested and there would be a 5m person revolt.

*cough* M73 and A73 *cough*

The problem Salmond has is that without generous transition subsidies for many years after independence, independence would rapidly bring bankruptcy as far more goes in to Scotland than comes out in taxes. The Irish nationalists were canny enough to forsee that the introduction of the state pension in the early twentieth century would by 1930 reverse the position of Ireland paying more in taxes than it got back and therefore make independence politically impossible, one reason why they wanted to force the issue without delay.

The "home truth" is that the Scottish Government has less powers that the Southern Rhodesian government had, it is rougly on a par with the powers granted to the Indian Parliament in 1919. While the forced renaming of the M74 is not very likely to happen to say the least, were a majority in parliament hostile to the idea of devolution to be elected (not wholly unthinkable if certain devolved states insist in provocative policies like taking advantage of the Barnet formula to give free university tuition for anyone from the EU except the rest of the UK who subsidise the Barnet formula) it is the sort of symbolic thing that could be put forward by a backbench MP, although without much chance of success unless things had got really poisonous.

More realistically, the West Lothian question will cause low level resentment that will make it impossible politically for any "english" government to agree any independence treaty that made preovision for the sort of transition susbidies Scotland would need to keep it's head above water as an independent state. Salmond will also have to use all his negotiating skills to try to avoid things appearing in treaties such as chunks of Scotland becoming english sovereign military bases as happened in Cyprus to this day (and Ireland until the 1930s)

The sections of A77 and A80 which have survived downgrading since 2000 each terminate another A-road (A719 and A752 respectively) and would need to remain A-roads in order to prevent such roads ending in the middle of nowhere. If sections of the road have to remain A-class, it might as well be with its original number.

Although we're less taken to wholesale number changes now - unlike in the 1960s when Glaswegian A-roads were swapped, stolen and squashed wholesale (A727, A729, A731 and A732, here's looking at you) - it would make sense to rationalise the numbering here, remove the A74 stub and extend A721, sort out the A749 at Brigeton Cross. We might as well renumber the M74/A74(M) to M6 while we're at it. And while we're at it, avian pigs will be laughing from above.

Mmmm,The A74 number will not disappear forever if it was left up to Dfs&Galloway Council,In Dumfries town centre there are still plenty of roadsigns proudly displaying " A74 Glasgow 80 miles" . The council roads policy is not to replace a roadsign until it is completely knackered or has been demolished by an errant HGV.
Another interesting point is that when the "old" A74 trunk road was finally upgraded in the '90s a lot of the new directional signs on the A701 northwards out of town have an A74(M)plate riveted onto the main sign face underneath which reads "Glasgow , Edinburgh M6 ".
HARRUMPH !!!!

This is in the Roads FAQ, which gives a little bit information into the background and potential future of it.

Looks like it hasn't been updated since the Cumberland Gap was filled.

To be more exact, eventual renaming of the whole route as M6 was stated Scottish Office policy from November 1991 at least until the general election of 1997, and possibly until the creation of the Scottish Parliament and Executive in 1999.

See M74 and A74(M) history in the SABRE Wiki.

We keep hearing about more locations of signs with M6 covered up.

------------



Of the A77 only a mile and a half would have to remain A class. The fact that bits of the ex-A74 became A701 and A702 didn't stop the rest being downgraded to B roads.

Errr you will find both the M73 and A73 follow roughly the same route. Start on the M74 and end on the M80......

But they are miles apart !

Though you'd actually want the route north of the GSO be an A road - there's no reason to downgrade it otherwise.

A74 renumbering: whole route A721

A77 renumbering: A814 to A726/M77 J4 = A777; A726/M77 J4 to M77 J6 = B7038; M77 J6 to A719 = A719; A719 to M77 J7 = B7038; M77 J7 to M77 J8 = B751 (renumber B751/B778 through Fenwick as B7038).

A80 renumbering: A8 to A806 = A806; A806 to M80 = A8011

I think that the A80 and A74 are legit as class I roads.