A1(M) Leeming - Barton

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MatthewB6323
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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby MatthewB6323 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 22:59

jcb336 wrote:one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

These are in the order I took them-which depended on where people were standing at the time. There were two plans which were not oriented to the compass the same way. The join is north of Catterick. Anyway I hope you can sequence the whole thing north to south. I would have done it myself but it took me long enough to figure out how to do it this far. I took one picture twice to try to show the detail better, and then my battery decided to fail. :roll:


Many thanks for putting all these up - very interesting.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby NICK 647063 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 23:58

I could not make it to see the plans so thanks for the uploads! Just out of interest how many houses will be demolished? I know that one at leeming bar is listed as to be demolished for the LAR, but what about North lodge and South Lodge Just North of Catterick? does not say to demolish on the plans but looks under the motorway to me!

These 2 houses where done up last year when the scheme was cancelled anyone know what happens to the people that bought them?

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby A303Chris » Mon Feb 18, 2013 13:31

JCB 336, thanks for the uploads most interesting. One question as the main line will be D2M through SC, will it be D2M to Barton where the existing A1(M) starts, or are the HA going to build a D3M between the two junctions , which IMO would be pointless.

Dropping the D3M to D2M at SC makes sense as again from my own experience a large volume of vehicles leave here to go across the A66 to the M6 / A74(M).
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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby wrinkly » Mon Feb 18, 2013 13:46

Unless the plans have changed since last time round it will pick up the third lane again for the relatively short distance to Barton.

Not sure if it will be another left hand lane drop at Barton - I vaguely remember seeing somewhere a suggestion that it won't.

Edit: Found it. Inspector's report 3.3.8:

The thee-lane motorway would extend north beyond the Barton junction northbound exit slip road and then reduce to tie in with the existing two-lane motorway running north from Barton Junction.

Of course that could just be talking about how wide the road surface will be, not about the road markings, so it could be consistent with a lane drop on either left or right.
Last edited by wrinkly on Mon Feb 18, 2013 13:59, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Mark Hewitt » Mon Feb 18, 2013 13:50

wrinkly wrote:Unless the plans have changed since last time round it will pick up the third lane again for the relatively short distance to Barton.

Not sure if it will be another left hand lane drop at Barton - I vaguely remember seeing somewhere a suggestion that it won't.


That's rather silly. As all traffic in Lanes 1 and 2 will have to shuffle across to the left after Scotch Corner. In both directions it's only going to be useful as a filter lane I think.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby M19 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 19:37

Looks like the Scotch Corner junction isn't going to be any better from the improvements. Adding a roundabout on the northbound slip road isn't really going to help traffic flow.

In anticipation of the A66 becoming dualled all the way (eventually!), I would have like to have seen free flow links to the A66. Instead we have a roundabout, recently signalised that will have an additional roundabout on a slip road that takes a lot of traffic north onto the A1.
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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby HandShandy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 20:07

M19 wrote:Looks like the Scotch Corner junction isn't going to be any better from the improvements. Adding a roundabout on the northbound slip road isn't really going to help traffic flow.

In anticipation of the A66 becoming dualled all the way (eventually!), I would have like to have seen free flow links to the A66. Instead we have a roundabout, recently signalised that will have an additional roundabout on a slip road that takes a lot of traffic north onto the A1.


Exactly. At a glance, it's not that hard to slot in a couple free flowing slip roads to make a fork - however the problem of the roundabout still remains as this provides access to the local routes and the services. It would have to stay there and along with the slip roads connecting to the A66, it would become a 3c level interchange then and cost considerably more.

It's a shame its not free flow but I guess we are lucky to have the upgrade at all...
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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Vierwielen » Tue Feb 19, 2013 16:16

The chainages on the maps suggest that that the leading 100 km has been supressed. The cameras on this site are at 119.9 km, but the maps start at 20300 metres (20.3 km). Has the leading 100 km been suppressed? If so, eeh 400 metre gap between the camera and the start of the new road is quie reasonable.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby wrinkly » Tue Feb 19, 2013 20:12

Vierwielen wrote:The chainages on the maps suggest that that the leading 100 km has been supressed. The cameras on this site are at 119.9 km, but the maps start at 20300 metres (20.3 km). Has the leading 100 km been suppressed? If so, eeh 400 metre gap between the camera and the start of the new road is quie reasonable.


The chainages on the plans appear to me to be measured from Dishforth. The designers' original brief for this project was Dishforth to Barton, though Dishforth to Leeming was then separated off and built first.

I think the chainages used for the cameras are the same as for the marker posts. For all sections of A1(M) between Blyth and Leeming these are from the original south end of the Doncaster bypass, the former Blyth roundabout. I expect Leeming to Barton, once it is built, to use the same system.

I think it's coincidence that the difference between the two is roughly 100km.

Edit: Also I would also trust the chainages on the plans more than those on the marker posts. We were recently discussing on the HS2 thread that marker posts are not always very accurate. I've posted previously that there's a backward jump in the numbers at Leeming Bar as you switch from new posts associated with the latest A1(M) (though some of them are, pedantically speaking, beyond its north end) to old ones on the A1. Prompted by your post to investigate further, I now think the old ones are more accurate relative to the Blyth datum than the new ones.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Roadtripper_Ian » Tue Feb 19, 2013 23:43

Is it really 7 years since the Scotch Corner exhibition? Glad to see this scheme is finally going to happen.
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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Mark Hewitt » Wed Feb 20, 2013 09:37

Roadtripper_Ian wrote:Is it really 7 years since the Scotch Corner exhibition? Glad to see this scheme is finally going to happen.


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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby wrinkly » Wed Feb 20, 2013 13:34

Roadtripper_Ian wrote:Is it really 7 years since the Scotch Corner exhibition?

It's terrifying how time flies, isn't it? I went to two exhibitions at Leeming Bar, one in 2005 when the draft orders were still being developed and one in 2006 when they were published. It's coming up to eight years since the first one.


NICK 647063 wrote:Just out of interest how many houses will be demolished? I know that one at leeming bar is listed as to be demolished for the LAR, but what about North lodge and South Lodge Just North of Catterick? does not say to demolish on the plans but looks under the motorway to me!

I assume one of those is the square turret thing you can see from the road? Looks like everything sufficiently close to the east side of the A1 north of the Catterick bypass is for the chop, maybe half a dozen properties? Not many compared with the large number demolished for Dishforth - Leeming.

I imagine there are several places along here where one-time buildings were demolished either for past A1 upgrades that happened, or for ones that were planned but didn't happen at the time.

South of Catterick some houses around Holtby Grange lose access to the north, south and west. The current proposals have no bridge there. They'll only be accessible via Low Street.

The map shows Osborne Cottages losing all their road access, but a check with Streetview shows they are derelict anyway.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Vierwielen » Wed Feb 20, 2013 15:33

wrinkly wrote:
Vierwielen wrote:The chainages on the maps suggest that that the leading 100 km has been supressed. The cameras on this site are at 119.9 km, but the maps start at 20300 metres (20.3 km). Has the leading 100 km been suppressed? If so, eeh 400 metre gap between the camera and the start of the new road is quie reasonable.


The chainages on the plans appear to me to be measured from Dishforth. The designers' original brief for this project was Dishforth to Barton, though Dishforth to Leeming was then separated off and built first.

I think the chainages used for the cameras are the same as for the marker posts. For all sections of A1(M) between Blyth and Leeming these are from the original south end of the Doncaster bypass, the former Blyth roundabout. I expect Leeming to Barton, once it is built, to use the same system.

I think it's coincidence that the difference between the two is roughly 100km.

Edit: Also I would also trust the chainages on the plans more than those on the marker posts. We were recently discussing on the HS2 thread that marker posts are not always very accurate. I've posted previously that there's a backward jump in the numbers at Leeming Bar as you switch from new posts associated with the latest A1(M) (though some of them are, pedantically speaking, beyond its north end) to old ones on the A1. Prompted by your post to investigate further, I now think the old ones are more accurate relative to the Blyth datum than the new ones.


Is there anywhere where the chainages are publically available, or does one have to drive up the road concerend with a GPS, pencil and notepad?

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby SarahJ » Thu Feb 21, 2013 08:17

Wonder how long the Shell garage, travelodge and little chef will last at Skeeby once things get going. I think once they go, scotch corner will struggle, its just too small and a bit disjointed.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Mark Hewitt » Thu Feb 21, 2013 09:08

SarahJ wrote:Wonder how long the Shell garage, travelodge and little chef will last at Skeeby once things get going. I think once they go, scotch corner will struggle, its just too small and a bit disjointed.

SJ


Agreed. They really need rebuilding to make them bigger more along the lines of Wetherby. But services seem to never get changed that they, they build them and leave them!

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Achmelvic » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:42

Alas I can't see the residents of Middleton Tyas agreeing to the current services being expanded further and there isn't anywhere else suitable near the junction except maybe in the field at the south-west corner, coming off the new LAR roundabout on the A6108.

A new full MSA at Barton lorry park has always seemed the better option but that'd miss the significant A66 traffic plus wouldn't have the historic name of Scotch Corner.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Chris5156 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 17:16

Achmelvic wrote:Alas I can't see the residents of Middleton Tyas agreeing to the current services being expanded further and there isn't anywhere else suitable near the junction except maybe in the field at the south-west corner, coming off the new LAR roundabout on the A6108.

Nonsense! As soon as I am declared benign dictator, I will be giving the go-ahead for this junction remodelling with ample space for an expanded service area: http://goo.gl/maps/tjvA7
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby Mark Hewitt » Tue Feb 26, 2013 21:05

The services could expand to the North with no impact on Middleton Tyas.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby harr629 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 22:51

I live near Darlington and read about this scheme in the Darlington & Stockton times the other day, wasn't it cancelled a few years ago due to the spending cuts and now it is back on again.

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Re: A1(M) LEEMING - BARTON

Postby wrinkly » Tue Feb 26, 2013 23:15

harr629 wrote:I live near Darlington and read about this scheme in the Darlington & Stockton times the other day, wasn't it cancelled a few years ago due to the spending cuts and now it is back on again.


Yes, it was cancelled in 2010 and revived in the Chancellor's autumn statement in early December last year, as you will see if you read the start of this thread or the last page and a bit of its predecessor thread.


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