Kelston Toll Road

[Johnathan404]

To be fair the reports all miss the fact the council's estimates for building a temporary road would have to account for the cost of purchasing the land.

Have to admire the ingenuity though.

[Glen]

do you really need permission to allow people to drive over your private property?

I understand the insurance part, as the public has access to the road, but when does a private road become a public highway? I thought it was only when adopted by the council/HA

If the Highways Agency bought the land adjoining your house would they need permission to lay 30 meters of asphalt to allow people to drive over, or if Tesco wished to double the size of the car park of your local supermarket would they need permission. The answer to both of those is yes, they would.

As for traffic law, yes it would apply as the public has access. Just as the RTA applies to shop car parks and the like.

If the council were to do anything I'd imagine it'd be regarding the lack of planning permission. But then, as the road does not have a paved surface, can it be classed as temporary (again, similar to a farm track)?

I'm not an expert on planning law, but I think the usage would be relevant to whether PP was needed.

I know agricultural buildings have less planning requirements (or none) than a residential house, even though they could be of similar outward appearance.
So I would think that a track or road used for agricultural or forestry purposes would have different rules to something like a retail car park or a motorway.

[Jon]

That's just brilliant.

Kudos to the man. At £2 a car he should get his money back in 4 months, maybe more.

If the owner of the field wants the road removed at the end of the lease, that might be more costly though.
And if the council suddenly miracles up a fix for the landslide on say, Thursday, then he's goosed.

[coneman]

And if the council suddenly miracles up a fix for the landslide on say, Thursday, then he's goosed.[/quote]

I wouldn't put it past the council to up its game and complete repairs to the damaged road pronto just to spite this entrepreneurial man.
He gets a big from me.

[Sou'wester]

What happens if two vehicles collide on his toll road? Presumably their car insurance wouldn't cover it as it is not on a public highway? Does paying a toll mean that the landowner has a responsibility for the safety of his customers? Third party liability insurance for example?

[rileyrob]

What happens if two vehicles collide in the car parking field at a car boot sale? If the car insurance doesn't cover it, presumably the public liability insurance he has taken out should.
I really don't see how this road is any different in principle from a road across fields to car parking at a festival, show, car boot or whatever. In fact, the road itself looks like it is better built.... Indeed it is built, rather than just two muddy ruts in a grass field. In all these cases you pay at the gate for the right to proceed, whether it be for parking or as a through route.
I am surprised that there is no evidence of a speed limit in any of the pictures I've seen, but otherwise good luck to him. I just hope he gets enough traffic through to recoup his expense.

[Trainfan]

...... One enterprising landowner .....

Now there is a whole can of worms and wedges with thin edges etc going on in this kind of enterprise. At first sight what is the harm, who could object?

However there are questions to be asked, not least what is the land classed as ....agricultural, development?

(Edit: Long rant about farmers sneakily changing land use and thereby benefiting from inheritance tax avoidance seems to have gone missing from my post ... probably for the better)

[Glen]

Kudos to the man. At £2 a car he should get his money back in 4 months, maybe more.

Do you think so?
Most of the traffic using the A431 will likely have one end of their journey in Bristol or Bath and will not be massively inconvenienced by being diverted via the A4.
That limits the toll road's usefulness to traffic going to destinations local to the closure.
The guy claims it is going to be constantly staffed by two people, so the first 150 vehicles a day will just be covering his costs to pay them NMW.
Assuming the road is repaired by the end of December he will need another 500 cars a day to recoup his £150,000.
So over 650 vehicles a day paying £2 instead of using the A4? Aint gonna happen.

[Bryn666]

What's the traffic flow data from the currently closed road?

There must be a demand for the route avoiding a 10 mile detour or he wouldn't have gone and built it.

The real issue here is this highlights how protracted and bureaucratic our planning system is as no one has any idea of the legalities of doing this, and by the time they do, it will no doubt no longer be needed and the field no returned to its normal use.

The signing is not quite there but it's a damn sight better than the horrors MSA operators install.

[Gav]

No Speed limits......

Autobhan here I come....

[SteveA30]

It was on the ITV national news. 10mph speed limit signs in the correct colours.
The landowner estimated he needs 1000 vehicles a day to recoup.

[wrinkly]

It was on the BBC1 lunchtime national news too.

[Christhebull]

The Guardian has picked up on it with a poll asking if you would use Mike Watts' toll road.

[roadtester]

We can't have people just building roads wherever they like, and no doubt he's broken every rule in the planning book but it is quite refreshing to see a piece of road going up quickly to meet an obvious need without decades of enquiries, consultants' reports and cost escalation.

[Stevie D]

What happens if two vehicles collide on his toll road? Presumably their car insurance wouldn't cover it as it is not on a public highway? Does paying a toll mean that the landowner has a responsibility for the safety of his customers? Third party liability insurance for example?

Surely it is no different (legally) from two cars colliding in an NCP car park. That isn't an adopted highway either. I can't see any reason for the drivers' insurance to be null and void.

[DavidBrown]

What happens if two vehicles collide on his toll road? Presumably their car insurance wouldn't cover it as it is not on a public highway? Does paying a toll mean that the landowner has a responsibility for the safety of his customers? Third party liability insurance for example?

Surely it is no different (legally) from two cars colliding in an NCP car park. That isn't an adopted highway either. I can't see any reason for the drivers' insurance to be null and void.

The difference is that if two vehicles collide on his road, and then blame the road rather than the other driver, there's going to be one heck of a legal mess to sort out. Something like an NCP will have all the relevant safety certificates and insurance.

[JH1010]

The road was just featured on BBC news (18:00 bulletin, 4th August 2014)

[michael769]

What happens if two vehicles collide in the car parking field at a car boot sale? If the car insurance doesn't cover it, presumably the public liability insurance he has taken out should.

No it should not. Public liability cover is to cover the landowner for his own or his staff's negligence not that of third parties (for example failing to deal with potholes)

If the drivers are not adequately insured whichever of them caused the collision would have to pay out of their own pockets. along with the fine for being uninsured. The requirement to insure a vehicle is not limited to the public road network

As for planning consent if you change the use you put land to you need change of use consent. However the council cannot withold planning just because theh don't like what he is doing the council's opinion of it would not be a "material planning concern", nor would concerns about his insurance cover.

[domcoop]

What happens if two vehicles collide in the car parking field at a car boot sale? If the car insurance doesn't cover it, presumably the public liability insurance he has taken out should.

No it should not. Public liability cover is to cover the landowner for his own or his staff's negligence not that of third parties...

No Employer's Liability insurance covers liability to emoloyees whi hurt themselves at work, etc. Public Liability insurance covers liability to ... the public. This includes drivers who collide / knacker their alloys on a pot hole / drive off the road in the night / get hit by a cow.

And the operator of a private road has a much more onerous obligation than the council, as they are covered by the Occupiers Liability Acts; whereas a "Road maintainable at Public Expense" is covered by the Highways Act 1980 which has a defence available if the authority has a reasonable system for inspecting and repairing any defects.

[roadtester]

If the drivers are not adequately insured whichever of them caused the collision would have to pay out of their own pockets. along with the fine for being uninsured. The requirement to insure a vehicle is not limited to the public road network.

But how would you decide who caused an accident? Would the normal rules of the road apply?