A long drive to Plymouth and back got me wondering - what's the longest carriageway lane there is, and what's the most diverse?
M6's middle lane must qualify (possibly right hand, not sure which drops for the A74) since it continues right to Glasgow on the M74.
I spotted a very diverse one, though it needs confirming. I observed the left hand lane of the M5 northbound is dropped at the M42, becomes the M42's middle lane, and then continues onto the M40 as middle lane. It joined the M5 from the M4 - if it remained continuous from there then it reaches Westway in London from either the Chiswick Flyover or Swansea by way of Birmingham. I clocked Chiswick back to Hammersmith at about 270 miles!
Can anyone confirm the lane arrangements at M4/M5 or suggest any longer/more diverse routes?
Chris
The longest lane
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Middle lane of the M25 surelymust have infinite length... :op
Chris.
Chris.
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Mediaman_12
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[Middle lane of the M25 surelymust have infinite length... :op]
AAHHH! No there is that TOTSO at J5
http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?x ... cale=25000
AAHHH! No there is that TOTSO at J5
http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?x ... cale=25000
Yes, I know... but doesn't the middle lane go round as part of the TOTSO, or split into two or something....
Actually there are the bits in Hertfordshire with the crawler lanes that start a new fast lane, and end by closing the slow lane (presumably to putmiddle lane drivers back in the slow lane), so you probably get some sort of enormous spiral, with the outside lane finally disappearing up the north orbital or something!
Chris.
Actually there are the bits in Hertfordshire with the crawler lanes that start a new fast lane, and end by closing the slow lane (presumably to putmiddle lane drivers back in the slow lane), so you probably get some sort of enormous spiral, with the outside lane finally disappearing up the north orbital or something!
Chris.
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biffvernon
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Middle lane of the M25 clockwise starts as the A21 (not sure how far back) ,goes round the M25 and becomes left lane of the M26, which I think gives way to the M20
Anticlockwise I think the M20 has a lane drop for the M26, so that lanestarts at Dover Docks, goes via the M26, and round theM25. Back at junction 5 it splits, to become boththe left lane of the A21 andthe outside lane of the M25. If you follow that round againyou will end up in the right lane of the A21. Not sure of the total distance, but two complete circuits of the M25 is 240 miles, so over 300 in total.
The M5M42 etc lane, if it comes from Chiswick, it actuallystarts back at Knightsbridge (Scotch Corner) or arguably in Piccadilly. From Marylebone it continues at least to Kings Cross.
Anticlockwise I think the M20 has a lane drop for the M26, so that lanestarts at Dover Docks, goes via the M26, and round theM25. Back at junction 5 it splits, to become boththe left lane of the A21 andthe outside lane of the M25. If you follow that round againyou will end up in the right lane of the A21. Not sure of the total distance, but two complete circuits of the M25 is 240 miles, so over 300 in total.
The M5M42 etc lane, if it comes from Chiswick, it actuallystarts back at Knightsbridge (Scotch Corner) or arguably in Piccadilly. From Marylebone it continues at least to Kings Cross.
How are we defining this longest lane? Presumably if you have to stop and give way at a merge or at a roundabout then the lane cannot be said to be continuous unless it is marked throughout a junction.
As far as the M4/M5 junction is concerned, all left turns invovle lane drop. taking the left turn from M4 to M5 north bound, the lane actually comes up the hill from the M48 junction where it joined the M4 having crossed the original Severn bridge. Prior to that, it came from Lane 1 of the M4 junction 23. I think the M4 is three lanes both before and after the junction so if I recall correctly, that is the start of that lane.
From the east, I think the M4 exit to M5 has been remarked so that the left hand lane which is dropped only goes to the South west. I think the middle lane splits into two, one for M5 north tarffic and one for M4 west traffic. Therefore, it probably does make it all the way back to the Hogarth roundabout, and beyond. I just have a nagging feeling that they have remarked this so that the M5 north is now a left turn off the M4 middle lane, but there is a white line sepatateing them so it cannot be said to be a continuation of the M4 middle lane.
What have you started here, Chris?
Simon
As far as the M4/M5 junction is concerned, all left turns invovle lane drop. taking the left turn from M4 to M5 north bound, the lane actually comes up the hill from the M48 junction where it joined the M4 having crossed the original Severn bridge. Prior to that, it came from Lane 1 of the M4 junction 23. I think the M4 is three lanes both before and after the junction so if I recall correctly, that is the start of that lane.
From the east, I think the M4 exit to M5 has been remarked so that the left hand lane which is dropped only goes to the South west. I think the middle lane splits into two, one for M5 north tarffic and one for M4 west traffic. Therefore, it probably does make it all the way back to the Hogarth roundabout, and beyond. I just have a nagging feeling that they have remarked this so that the M5 north is now a left turn off the M4 middle lane, but there is a white line sepatateing them so it cannot be said to be a continuation of the M4 middle lane.
What have you started here, Chris?
Simon
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T1(M): <<Not sure of the total distance, but two complete circuits of the M25 is 240 miles, so over 300 in total.>>
That's a good one!
I don't think it beats - for length - the Rugby to Glasgow journey of the M6's middle lane, finally stopping at a roundabout. If the M74 extension goes through, can anyone see what'll happen to lanes there? Might the middle lane continue on the M8 or head down the M77?
M4Man: <<How are we defining this longest lane? Presumably if you have to stop and give way at a merge or at a roundabout then the lane cannot be said to be continuous unless it is marked throughout a junction.>>
Exactly. The example I gave is literally a continuous lane - no splits, no give way lines, no roundabouts. So the A1 doesn't count because its lanes are relatively short, as they keep stopping at roundabouts.
No jokes about infinite roundabout lanes please!
Chris
That's a good one!
I don't think it beats - for length - the Rugby to Glasgow journey of the M6's middle lane, finally stopping at a roundabout. If the M74 extension goes through, can anyone see what'll happen to lanes there? Might the middle lane continue on the M8 or head down the M77?
M4Man: <<How are we defining this longest lane? Presumably if you have to stop and give way at a merge or at a roundabout then the lane cannot be said to be continuous unless it is marked throughout a junction.>>
Exactly. The example I gave is literally a continuous lane - no splits, no give way lines, no roundabouts. So the A1 doesn't count because its lanes are relatively short, as they keep stopping at roundabouts.
No jokes about infinite roundabout lanes please!
Chris
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Also when M1 J19 is rebuilt and a new A14 is built to the south of Huntingdon the M6's middle lane will run fromGlasgow to Charlie Browns.
<<I don't think it beats - for length - the Rugby to Glasgow journey of the M6's middle lane, finally stopping at a roundabout. If the M74 extension goes through, can anyone see what'll happen to lanes there? Might the middle lane continue on the M8 or head down the M77?>>
<<I don't think it beats - for length - the Rugby to Glasgow journey of the M6's middle lane, finally stopping at a roundabout. If the M74 extension goes through, can anyone see what'll happen to lanes there? Might the middle lane continue on the M8 or head down the M77?>>
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
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Gone-but-not-forgotten1
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<< Sadly, the aerial photos on multimap are not quite detailed enough to give the answer on the M4/M5 interchange. Anyone going that way soon?>>
Sounds like i will have to pop out in the car tomorrow LOL - so do we just want to know if there is a continuous lane on M4 heading west to go north on the M5?
Martyn
Sounds like i will have to pop out in the car tomorrow LOL - so do we just want to know if there is a continuous lane on M4 heading west to go north on the M5?
Martyn
Martyn: <<so do we just want to know if there is a continuous lane on M4 heading west to go north on the M5?>>
That's about it!
Simon
That's about it!
Simon
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M4Man: <<What have you started here, Chris?>>
A4174: <<Sounds like i will have to pop out in the car tomorrow>>
I'm beginning to wonder!
I'd be very pleased if there was a single carriageway lane that made it in a circle from the A4 to the A40 in London via Bristol and Birmingham!
Chris
A4174: <<Sounds like i will have to pop out in the car tomorrow>>
I'm beginning to wonder!
I'd be very pleased if there was a single carriageway lane that made it in a circle from the A4 to the A40 in London via Bristol and Birmingham!
Chris
Chris
Roads.org.uk
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<<when M1 J19 is rebuilt and a new A14 is built to the south of Huntingdon the M6's middle lane will run fromGlasgow to Charlie Browns>>
Or it would if it wasn't for the roundabout at Brampton.
Would it actually end at Charlie Brown's? Depending on which lane of the M11 it becomes, I think it would get to either Bowes Road or Barking, both on the A406
Or it would if it wasn't for the roundabout at Brampton.
Would it actually end at Charlie Brown's? Depending on which lane of the M11 it becomes, I think it would get to either Bowes Road or Barking, both on the A406
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Gone-but-not-forgotten1
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M4 Man : <<From the east, I think the M4 exit to M5 has been remarked so that the left hand lane which is dropped only goes to the South west. I think the middle lane splits into two, one for M5 north traffic and one for M4 west traffic>>
Me: <<so do we just want to know if there is a continuous lane on M4 heading west to go north on the M5?>>
Ok folks, I got on the M4 from the M32 and headed west to go to M5 north.
The layout approaching the Almondsbury Interchange has been improved recently and from one mile out, the left land lane of the M4 splits into 2 therefore we now have 4 laneswestbound (2 sets of 2 with shorterseparatorlines between lanes 2 and 3).
Lane 1 is for M5 to go southwest
Lane 2 is for M5 north (the one we want)
Lane 3 is for M4/M48 to Wales (also allows traffic to merge into lane 2 for M5 north but that means changing lane)
Lane 4 isfor M4/M48 to Wales.
So for a continuous laneyou nowhave to stay in the LEFT hand lane of the M4 then when the lane splits stay in the RIGHT hand lane to go over the top of the interchange (this splits into 2 lanes too but merges again before M4 traffic from Wales merges to become the left hand lane of the M5 northbound.
Hope this makes sense -I can draw a sketch if anyone wants.
Cheers
Martyn
Me: <<so do we just want to know if there is a continuous lane on M4 heading west to go north on the M5?>>
Ok folks, I got on the M4 from the M32 and headed west to go to M5 north.
The layout approaching the Almondsbury Interchange has been improved recently and from one mile out, the left land lane of the M4 splits into 2 therefore we now have 4 laneswestbound (2 sets of 2 with shorterseparatorlines between lanes 2 and 3).
Lane 1 is for M5 to go southwest
Lane 2 is for M5 north (the one we want)
Lane 3 is for M4/M48 to Wales (also allows traffic to merge into lane 2 for M5 north but that means changing lane)
Lane 4 isfor M4/M48 to Wales.
So for a continuous laneyou nowhave to stay in the LEFT hand lane of the M4 then when the lane splits stay in the RIGHT hand lane to go over the top of the interchange (this splits into 2 lanes too but merges again before M4 traffic from Wales merges to become the left hand lane of the M5 northbound.
Hope this makes sense -I can draw a sketch if anyone wants.
Cheers
Martyn
The roundabout at Brampton will be abolished as part of the A14 upgrade - so the lane will probably be straight through to the end of the M11. As it currently is, this would end at the A13 junction near Beckton (there is actually no access from the M11 to Charlie Brown's rbt, the sliproads just fly over to join the NCR).
Incidentally, the HA does have some proposed works to sort out M11 Jct 4 at Woodford - quote from the Route Manager: "there is a scheme to carry out improvements designed to ease congestion for northbound traffic. We are hoping to get the works underway before the end of this financial year. However, there are several statutory processes that must be successfully completed before the works can be started and the timescales may cause the start to be later than we would
have hoped".
I don't know the details, but hope it would include adding an extra third (outer) lane to the east side of the northbound carriageway, from the point where the two slips join to the point at which three lanes currently start.
With a bit of luck the southbound side can be sorted out as well sometime soon!
Incidentally, the HA does have some proposed works to sort out M11 Jct 4 at Woodford - quote from the Route Manager: "there is a scheme to carry out improvements designed to ease congestion for northbound traffic. We are hoping to get the works underway before the end of this financial year. However, there are several statutory processes that must be successfully completed before the works can be started and the timescales may cause the start to be later than we would
have hoped".
I don't know the details, but hope it would include adding an extra third (outer) lane to the east side of the northbound carriageway, from the point where the two slips join to the point at which three lanes currently start.
With a bit of luck the southbound side can be sorted out as well sometime soon!
<<Incidentally, the HA does have some proposed works to sort out M11 Jct 4 at Woodford - quote from the Route Manager: "there is a scheme to carry out improvements designed to ease congestion for northbound traffic.>>
And about time too... an extra lane northbound wouldn't be expensive or difficult to construct.
However, the southbound traffic is more the problem at the junction - it can regularly queue up to junction 5 or even 6 on a typical morning. The work to provide access to the NCR southbound from both lanes the other year helped ease things slightly.... although the speed camera in my opinion did not. Now you get jams build up when there weren't any before owing to people spotting the camera at the last minute and doing an emergency stop on the carriageway.
<<The roundabout at Brampton will be abolished as part of the A14 upgrade - so the lane will probably be straight through to the end of the M11. As it currently is, this would end at the A13 junction near Beckton>>
Going Southbound the middle lane of the M11 would do a right and head off towards the Waterworks corner (where it would become the slow lane of the A406), and terminate at the Billet. The slow lane of the M11 that turns off southbound doesn't end at Beckton - it meets with the A406 southbound, and then peels off again and terminates at the Redbridge roundabout.
However, it is possible that the middle lane of the M6 (after the A14 upgrade) will become the fast lane of the M11 round Cambridge (on the two lane section between there and Stortford). In this case, it would end at Charlie Brown's - as the road drops from three to two lanes there...
Chris.
And about time too... an extra lane northbound wouldn't be expensive or difficult to construct.
However, the southbound traffic is more the problem at the junction - it can regularly queue up to junction 5 or even 6 on a typical morning. The work to provide access to the NCR southbound from both lanes the other year helped ease things slightly.... although the speed camera in my opinion did not. Now you get jams build up when there weren't any before owing to people spotting the camera at the last minute and doing an emergency stop on the carriageway.
<<The roundabout at Brampton will be abolished as part of the A14 upgrade - so the lane will probably be straight through to the end of the M11. As it currently is, this would end at the A13 junction near Beckton>>
Going Southbound the middle lane of the M11 would do a right and head off towards the Waterworks corner (where it would become the slow lane of the A406), and terminate at the Billet. The slow lane of the M11 that turns off southbound doesn't end at Beckton - it meets with the A406 southbound, and then peels off again and terminates at the Redbridge roundabout.
However, it is possible that the middle lane of the M6 (after the A14 upgrade) will become the fast lane of the M11 round Cambridge (on the two lane section between there and Stortford). In this case, it would end at Charlie Brown's - as the road drops from three to two lanes there...
Chris.
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A4174: <<Lane 2 is for M5 north (the one we want)>>
Thanks for checking this Martyn!
So lane 1 of the M4 westbound DOES become lane 1 of the M5 northbound without giving way to anything? That is to say, it IS possible to drive in lane 1 of the M4 onto the M5 north without having to give way to any other traffic?
Excellent news then! Knightsbridge to Piccadilly via Bristol and Birmingham without changing lanes once! Anyone in London fancy making sure?
If the A14 changes at Huntingdon go through then North Circular to Glasgow would be an achievement too.
Anyone have any ideas for others, or have we found the longest and the most diverse now?
Chris
Thanks for checking this Martyn!
So lane 1 of the M4 westbound DOES become lane 1 of the M5 northbound without giving way to anything? That is to say, it IS possible to drive in lane 1 of the M4 onto the M5 north without having to give way to any other traffic?
Excellent news then! Knightsbridge to Piccadilly via Bristol and Birmingham without changing lanes once! Anyone in London fancy making sure?
If the A14 changes at Huntingdon go through then North Circular to Glasgow would be an achievement too.
Anyone have any ideas for others, or have we found the longest and the most diverse now?
Chris
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re the journey of the middle lane of the M6 (becoming outside lane ofA74 & M74 to Glasgow):
Couple of points - what effect will the M6 Toll have on this? I think the M6 is being remodelled so that the main carriageway becomes the Toll Road, at both ends, but which way will the middle lane prior to the Toll go when the lanes split?
Also - I'm afraid that as the M6 stands at the moment the middlelane becomes the outside lane at junction 30 (M61) asthe outside lane drops, and the 2 lane M6 gets the extra two lanes from the M61. It continues as the fast lane through the M55 turn off, and an extra lane comesin from the M55 as the new insidelane. Hence the middle lane becomes the outside lane from junction 30 and stays that way until Carlisle, where I think it ends and joins the middle lane. So I don't thinkit does in fact work all the way to Glasgow as one lane Chris - sorry! And if you chose the inside lane from Rugby instead, then this would definitely have dropped before then - Spaghetti Junction perhaps?
Couple of points - what effect will the M6 Toll have on this? I think the M6 is being remodelled so that the main carriageway becomes the Toll Road, at both ends, but which way will the middle lane prior to the Toll go when the lanes split?
Also - I'm afraid that as the M6 stands at the moment the middlelane becomes the outside lane at junction 30 (M61) asthe outside lane drops, and the 2 lane M6 gets the extra two lanes from the M61. It continues as the fast lane through the M55 turn off, and an extra lane comesin from the M55 as the new insidelane. Hence the middle lane becomes the outside lane from junction 30 and stays that way until Carlisle, where I think it ends and joins the middle lane. So I don't thinkit does in fact work all the way to Glasgow as one lane Chris - sorry! And if you chose the inside lane from Rugby instead, then this would definitely have dropped before then - Spaghetti Junction perhaps?
The toll plaza of the M6 Toll will stop the continuity of the lanes on the M6 - I've just realised there is a similar problem on the M25/A282 - the identity of lanes cannot be considered continuous through the plaza.
<<Knightsbridge to Piccadilly>>? The end is notPiccadilly (although arguably the beginning is further back than Knightsbridge). The M40's centre lane continues not to Piccadilly (A4) but to Marylebone(former A40(M)). Beyond there lanes are dropped and gained on both sides quite frequently, but I think the centre lane makes it as far as Kings Cross.
<<Knightsbridge to Piccadilly>>? The end is notPiccadilly (although arguably the beginning is further back than Knightsbridge). The M40's centre lane continues not to Piccadilly (A4) but to Marylebone(former A40(M)). Beyond there lanes are dropped and gained on both sides quite frequently, but I think the centre lane makes it as far as Kings Cross.