Public roads crossing private roads

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Rambo
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Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Rambo »

Does anybody have any examples of public roads that cross private roads and vice versa by means of a junction? For example here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3308931 ... ?entry=ttu This public road (Red Brow Lane) crosses a private road within Daresbury park estate. Technically you can turn onto the private road. However on the private road i note that there are no right or left turn signs discouraging you from turning into Red Brow Lane, even though you can. Cleary access to Red Brow Lane has been retained with the newer private road cutting through it. I wondered if there are many similar examples like this.
Summers-lad
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Summers-lad »

Here's one https://www.google.com/maps/@57.2828468 ... &entry=ttu
The road to the east has a short private section, as far as the railway bridge, and then becomes public to the north end of Carrbridge where it joins the A938. The road to the west is a farm access. The link from Carrbridge used to be used as a rat-run to get more quickly to the A9, so a gate was built across the end just before it meets the A9. However, the lock on the gate seems to have been cut open several times, and it is now left permanently open. There are "no left turn" (from the north) and "no right turn" (from the south) signs on the A9.

And another, very different one https://www.google.com/maps/@57.5768401 ... &entry=ttu
A tarred private road in Darnaway estate crosses a minor public road connecting the A96 with Conicavel village. (There are other T-junctions with private roads nearby, and one crossroads where 3 sides are public, but this is the only crossing of public and private roads in the estate.)
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Alderpoint
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Alderpoint »

What is your distinction between a "public" road and a "private road"? From the examples given, there is nothing obvious which indicate the roads are "public" or "private".

If the distinction is about ownership, then this is usually not obvious to the average driver. If the distinction is about restricting access, then this needs to be signed if the owner wants to enforce any restrictions.
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wallmeerkat
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by wallmeerkat »

The Ulster Folk and Transport museum straddles the A2 Belfast to Bangor road.

It has a small GSJ to allow access https://www.google.com/maps/@54.6523028 ... ?entry=ttu
WHBM
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by WHBM »

wallmeerkat
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by wallmeerkat »

WHBM wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:42 Public road crossing Runcorn busway

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.321427, ... ?entry=ttu

No pedestrians signage, and a footpath so that is ignored by the pedestrian in the background :D

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3214723 ... ?entry=ttu
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Barkstar
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Barkstar »

WHBM wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:42 Public road crossing Runcorn busway

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.321427, ... ?entry=ttu
These are all over Runcorn. Council services and emergency services can use them. And they are misused by pedestrians, cyclists, illegal motorbikes and the occasional car. Slowly but surely footpaths are being added where there's been a clear need and a lot of non compliance.
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solocle
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by solocle »

wallmeerkat wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:36
WHBM wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:42 Public road crossing Runcorn busway

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.321427, ... ?entry=ttu

No pedestrians signage, and a footpath so that is ignored by the pedestrian in the background :D

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3214723 ... ?entry=ttu
Not quite a patch on this footpath though...
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Rambo
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Rambo »

Alderpoint wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 08:36 What is your distinction between a "public" road and a "private road"? From the examples given, there is nothing obvious which indicate the roads are "public" or "private".

If the distinction is about ownership, then this is usually not obvious to the average driver. If the distinction is about restricting access, then this needs to be signed if the owner wants to enforce any restrictions.
I agree the average driver will not know any difference. I was just looking at it from a trivia point of view where both private roads and public roads cross at the same level rather than a bridge etc. Most private roads or estates are self contained and only join public roads at usual entry/exit points rather than criss cross each other.
Last edited by Rambo on Wed Jul 05, 2023 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
Rambo
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Rambo »

Thought about Runcorn busways afterwards. Yep its certainly unusual when you come up to one of the junctions and cannot turn onto them.
WHBM
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by WHBM »

One of the largest residential private road networks is in inner London, in Blackheath, stretching all the way across to Kidbrooke.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4640588 ... ?entry=ttu

It's not really apparent how it is enforced. There are occasional parking enforcement notices, but probably not compliant with the regulation which requires them to be very obvious. There are double yellow lines in places, but as they (obviously) don't have a TRO the are presumably unenforceable. It's London Borough of Greenwich, and they pay the same council tax band as if they were on adopted roads, but have no road maintenance, which is done by a (substantial) charge on the residents. Spadeoak have the maintenance contract, and seem to have a good engineer who keeps it all nicely to official standards. I don't know who does the street lighting.
Herned
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Herned »

wallmeerkat wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:36 No pedestrians signage, and a footpath so that is ignored by the pedestrian in the background :D

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3214723 ... ?entry=ttu
How do you get to the bus stop on the left, if pedestrians are banned?
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KeithW
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by KeithW »

Herned wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 20:07
wallmeerkat wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:36 No pedestrians signage, and a footpath so that is ignored by the pedestrian in the background :D

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3214723 ... ?entry=ttu
How do you get to the bus stop on the left, if pedestrians are banned?
I would be inclined to check it with the council definitive road map , it just looks wrong to me.
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jgharston
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by jgharston »

Here? https://goo.gl/maps/XpkAEMSe622UHjXu7

A private road to the allotments that predates the surrounding estate, and used to be the access lane to the farm that used to occupy the land, crossed by the public adopted highway (twice!). It's still there as it's a public footpath.
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Barkstar
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Barkstar »

Herned wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 20:07
wallmeerkat wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:36 No pedestrians signage, and a footpath so that is ignored by the pedestrian in the background :D

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3214723 ... ?entry=ttu
How do you get to the bus stop on the left, if pedestrians are banned?
Plenty of these anomalies across the town. The nearest bus stops on the busway near my partners house are only accessible from the far end - the busway forms a triangle with the two public roads. it looks like they are currently putting in a bit more pavement to avoid going round - not that we ever do if hopping the bus, the whole section is only 200 metres.
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A303Chris
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by A303Chris »

You can't beat these two, new estate roads crossing the private entrance road to the former RAF offices at Cardington south of Bedford, which are now the DVSA Training Academy.

Both roads cross the private road at Traffic Lights with all turning movements banned.

Entrance with Gates Still in Place

Estate Crossing Road One
Estate Crossing Road two
The M25 - The road to nowhere
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Bryn666
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Bryn666 »

Herned wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 20:07
wallmeerkat wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:36 No pedestrians signage, and a footpath so that is ignored by the pedestrian in the background :D

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3214723 ... ?entry=ttu
How do you get to the bus stop on the left, if pedestrians are banned?
Many of the busway stops are accessed by overgrown and dodgy paths away from roads which strike me as a design fail.
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Rob590
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Re: Public roads crossing private roads

Post by Rob590 »

There's a thread about the Old Concrete Road, which was built as part of the construction of the Haweswater reservoir in Cumbria. There are a couple of locations where public roads which cross this private road. The signage that it is private is relatively limited, and as the thread (and Streetview) shows it is drivable by public traffic.
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