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 Post subject: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 14:42 
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I know this makes me sound like one of the WP admins, but I think we really need some sort of notability limitation.

When adding counties to roads, I have found many pages (such as B5120) which have been added because of mis-quoted numbers in newspapers, among other sources.

Also, is the A36(M) only given a page because of a SABRE conversation? If that's the case, should we give a page to, say, M14, as some on SABRE have suggested that M14 was supposed to be Ringway 1's number (typo'd to M41).


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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:02 
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M5Lenzar wrote:
I know this makes me sound like one of the WP admins

Since you're not American and you have expressed an interest in British and Irish Roads, I don't think you'll ever sound like one. :wink:

We generally have an unofficial rule that if somebody spots something that can be challenged, they can ask about it. The reason that works here and not on Wikipedia, is that the latter is far bigger in scale and any non-expert can challenge an expert.

We also assume, and with very good reason, what is reported on CBRD, PM etc is correct, and can be frequently validated via the archive folders referenced on CBRD ArchiveWiki.

Also, what's the issue with the B5120 article? If I click on the map reference next to the start or endpoints, I get contemporary OS coverage that matches up. It's been rerouted westwards sometime after 1960, but otherwise has been in Prestatyn since 1923.

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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:11 
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M5Lenzar wrote:
Also, is the A36(M) only given a page because of a SABRE conversation? If that's the case, should we give a page to, say, M14, as some on SABRE have suggested that M14 was supposed to be Ringway 1's number (typo'd to M41).


Well, I'd be happy to bin the A36(M), but it's gone beyond "a SABRE conversation". As for the "M14", it was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion only, with no basis in reality or outside sources.

Chris put it best:

Chris5156 wrote:
The point is that if we want to be the UK's key reference on road numbering, we have to expect that someone might ask a question about any road number, including incorrect ones. If Google were to mislabel a road as M21, we should have a page about it, so that anybody who thinks to themselves "M21 sounds a bit weird, I wonder whether it's correct?" can look at the SABRE wiki and read our page that would say no, it's not.

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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:21 
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The question is, though, when should it stop?

I have a 1960s diary that has an enclosed map (which some you have seen). In the map, the M45 is shown as numbered M5. Should I create a whole M5 (M1 spur) page based on that mapping error?


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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:29 
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I'm no expert on the Sabre wiki (although I am a WP admin ;) ), but I'd say that there should be content about such mapping errors, with search terms for them redirecting to that content. That's not to say there should be a page about every mapping error, but for example in this case a sentence on the M45, M5 and/or a central mapping error page, noting that this diary mislabelled the M45 as the M5.

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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:33 
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I don't think mapping errors on things like leaflets are even worth mentioning- they're so wrong so often.

If it's a map, designed purely to be a map then fair play, I'd make an article for it.

I think common sense is a major factor, seemingly unlike the 'other' wiki.

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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:36 
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If people are likely to be asking about it, then there should be a page about it. A degree of judgement and common sense is required.

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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:37 
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swarkestonecauseway wrote:
I don't think mapping errors on things like leaflets are even worth mentioning- they're so wrong so often.

If it's a map, designed purely to be a map then fair play, I'd make an article for it.

I think common sense is a major factor, seemingly unlike the 'other' wiki.


Exactly. If it's a massively obvious error, such as on OS maps, Google Maps or some other commercial map maker, (or indeed an official or semi-official source) then that's in there. If the South Suffolk Messenger misprints the Ipswich Bypass in an advertisement, then so what? If it's in the middle, then you make a judgment call.

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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:45 
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That's what I was getting at, better put :D

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 Post subject: Re: Notability
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 23:32 
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Chris5156 wrote:
The point is that if we want to be the UK's key reference on road numbering, we have to expect that someone might ask a question about any road number, including incorrect ones. If Google were to mislabel a road as M21, we should have a page about it, so that anybody who thinks to themselves "M21 sounds a bit weird, I wonder whether it's correct?" can look at the SABRE wiki and read our page that would say no, it's not.
That's one of the reasons why I added famous fantasy schemes, like the East Coast Motorway and POLO. Ditto the fairly solid hearsay about the plan for M27 spur numbering meaning that there's M270, M273 (that's just a redirect to the Townhill Link Motorway page, IIRC) and M274 pages. These things come up quite a bit on SABRE, and elsewhere, so we want pages on these.

A36(M) is on the wiki as it was in the digest, IIRC. It can surely stay as a page linking to PM.

Things like the A11(M) and A23(M) provisional numbers, and the M30 M3 renumbering plan get included as on official documents - just like the ones already on PM.
Steven wrote:
Exactly. If it's a massively obvious error, such as on OS maps, Google Maps or some other commercial map maker, (or indeed an official or semi-official source) then that's in there.
Hence I've added the A65(M) now I got my scanner working (the scan I did yesterday didn't work well, and I couldn't be bothered to re-do it - it's wasn't done to annoy you Lenzar, or because I didn't think it was notable enough before Steven's post) and could provide a scan of the offending map.

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