Italian Motorways

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Owain
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Re: Italian Motorways

Post by Owain »

mikewhitcombe wrote:
Owain wrote:
mikewhitcombe wrote:OK - I'll work on it - however the junctions do not always lead to a numbered road... You think that Italians are as organised as that???!
Isn't every road numbered in Italy, like France? SP, SR, SS? It's just that the numbers don't always show on the maps?
Theoretically - but they are sometimes rather complicated - e.g. "SS724 Tangenziale Nord di Modena e diramazione per Sassuolo", which is distinct from the SS724 proper...
Ah yes, I appreciate that. The SS131 could also have the "SS131 dir", the "SS131 bis", and the "ex SS131", and probably a load of other variants that I can't think of right now.

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Re: Italian Motorways

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My wife is Italian from Rome, so we used to go there a lot to see her mother. I remember one very small roadsign along the Via Nomentana that just had "GRA" on it. As you can see, it didn't need to be all that big for that !!

It was years before I realised what it was short for, hence what it was pointing towards, but maybe our new Italian Wiki man can tell us ? Roads direction signs are in very short supply in Rome, one just has to get around without relying on them
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Re: Italian Motorways

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I know what it means, but not going the attempt to spell it. I guess the equivalent in the UK would be to have signs pointing to the LO (London Orbital).


Gran Ricardo Annulare?
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Re: Italian Motorways

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The Rome Orbital Motorway, basically.

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Re: Italian Motorways

Post by mikewhitcombe »

SarahJ wrote:I know what it means, but not going the attempt to spell it. I guess the equivalent in the UK would be to have signs pointing to the LO (London Orbital).


Gran Ricardo Annulare?
"Grande Raccordo Anulare" to be precise. Could also be "Grande Rapporto Anale", but I'll let you Google Translate that one...
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Re: Italian Motorways

Post by Vierwielen »

mikewhitcombe wrote:
SarahJ wrote:I know what it means, but not going the attempt to spell it. I guess the equivalent in the UK would be to have signs pointing to the LO (London Orbital).


Gran Ricardo Annulare?
"Grande Raccordo Anulare" to be precise. Could also be "Grande Rapporto Anale", but I'll let you Google Translate that one...
GRA = Grande Raccordo Anulare is confirmed by this site.
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Re: Italian Motorways

Post by Owain »

mikewhitcombe wrote:
SarahJ wrote:I know what it means, but not going the attempt to spell it. I guess the equivalent in the UK would be to have signs pointing to the LO (London Orbital).


Gran Ricardo Annulare?
"Grande Raccordo Anulare" to be precise. Could also be "Grande Rapporto Anale", but I'll let you Google Translate that one...
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Now known as the A90, of course ... I've driven all the way around it, mostly in the outside lane, because it was the only place I felt safe in the tiny Fiat 500 I'd hired.
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Vierwielen
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Re: Italian Motorways

Post by Vierwielen »

mikewhitcombe wrote: Tue Nov 18, 2014 08:35 OK - the A3 is almost done.

Would folks prefer the junctions listed as a fancy "Wikipedia-style" table in the main article or as a part of the sidebar as I did for the A1?
Resurrecting a very old thread. I decided to see how the junctions in for Italian A1 were represented, not just in the English WIkipedia, but also in the Wikipedias from other languages.

The English language version was based on an older Italian version which gave disntaces from the start of the motorway for both northbound and southbound traffic. Also, some goon plasterd a notice stating that this junction list did not meet the Wikipedia standards (whatever they might be).

The Italian version has been upgraded since the Englsih version was cut and pasted from it. It now only shows the southbound distances associated with junctions as those are the distances that are signposted. A pity that the junction names and destinations are still in the same column. An additional column would have been useful.

The format of the Dutch version is totally different to the original Italian version and is very much of a sidebar format.

The German version is much like the Dutch version except that every roadside feature (tunnels, viaduct, rivers etc) are shown and TBH, probably suffers from "too much information".
Last edited by Vierwielen on Wed Mar 13, 2024 14:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Italian Motorways

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Vierwielen wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 16:26The English language version was based on an older Italian version which gave disntaces from the start of the motorway for both northbound and southbound traffic. Also, some goon plasterd a notice stating that this junction list did not meet the Wikipedia standards (whatever they might be).

The Italian version has been upgraded since the Englsih version was cut and pasted from it. It now only shows the southbound distances associated with junctions as those are the distances that are signposted. A pity that the junction names and destinations are still in the same column. An additional column would have been useful.
Could the discrepancy be because the kilometre distances on the motorway were originally counted from south (Rome) to north (Milan), but then reversed to count from north (Milan) to south (Naples) when the route was extended along the old A2?
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Re: Italian Motorways

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Owain wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 19:43
Vierwielen wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 16:26The English language version was based on an older Italian version which gave distances from the start of the motorway for both northbound and southbound traffic. Also, some goon plasterd a notice stating that this junction list did not meet the Wikipedia standards (whatever they might be).

The Italian version has been upgraded since the English version was cut and pasted from it. It now only shows the southbound distances associated with junctions as those are the distances that are signposted. A pity that the junction names and destinations are still in the same column. An additional column would have been useful.
Could the discrepancy be because the kilometre distances on the motorway were originally counted from south (Rome) to north (Milan), but then reversed to count from north (Milan) to south (Naples) when the route was extended along the old A2?
No. The Italian road authorities counted in the same direction on both carriageways, in the case of the A1, from north to south, something that I observed when I was working there in 2002. The additionof the south to north addition appears to be a Wikipedia thing. This also calls into question - shouls Wikipedia mirror what is written on the location signs, or shoudl they make correctionsto accomodate new by-passes that add an a few extra kilmetres to the distance. On roads other than the autostrada The Italians handle this by giving the by-pass a new number, thereby retaining the numbering system of the original roads (which no doubt matches the original drawings of the road). Looking at British driver location signs, the absence of E, F, G and H carriageways suggests to me that these lettes are reserved for re-alignments (eg if the M25 was re-aligned to accomodate the third Heathrow runway, the carriageways of the new sections of road would be designated the E and F carriageways, thereby removing the problems of the realigmnment being a few metres longer.
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Owain
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Re: Italian Motorways

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Vierwielen wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 14:33
Owain wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 19:43
Vierwielen wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 16:26The English language version was based on an older Italian version which gave distances from the start of the motorway for both northbound and southbound traffic. Also, some goon plasterd a notice stating that this junction list did not meet the Wikipedia standards (whatever they might be).

The Italian version has been upgraded since the English version was cut and pasted from it. It now only shows the southbound distances associated with junctions as those are the distances that are signposted. A pity that the junction names and destinations are still in the same column. An additional column would have been useful.
Could the discrepancy be because the kilometre distances on the motorway were originally counted from south (Rome) to north (Milan), but then reversed to count from north (Milan) to south (Naples) when the route was extended along the old A2?
No. The Italian road authorities counted in the same direction on both carriageways, in the case of the A1, from north to south, something that I observed when I was working there in 2002...
When you were working there in 2002, the situation would have been exactly the same as today, because that was well after the A1 was extended to Naples in 1988! I was hypothesising about what the situation would have been prior to that happening.

Having done a little research, though, I believe you're correct that the A1 was always considered to have 'started' in Milan and 'ended' in Rome. It's certainly the case that the kilometres are counted from one end to the other for both carriageways, rather than in opposite directions according to direction of travel; I've verified this by checking the A4, which counts away from Turin travelling eastbound, and towards Turin heading westbound.
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