The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.
There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).
Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.
Glenn A wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 16:51
KFC is the anti Christ, another vile chain of American fast food " restaurants" that infest roadsides and city centres. Little Chef at least was a decent British institution for three decades and quite traditional until later on with its old style customer service.
There was a time in the 80s I remember KFC being a treat, it tasted quite nice. The last few times I've went to one over the past few years it's been disappointing with chicken that is both greasy and dry, tasteless coating, awful chips, watery gravy, filthy tables, understaffed, broken drive through microphones and always a wait for what used to be "fast" food.
The only Little Chef I got to visit was Kilmarnock on the way to Glasgow in the late 90s, I remember it being an alright feed. Sadly now (seems post 2011 from GSV history) a McDonalds with a 90 minute parking fine.
It's hard to know if KFC has become worse (there may have been some reformulations to due to salt targets or changing consumer tastes) or if better places have since opened, but in my experience their chicken has usually been decent, although I've always binned the fries or given them to someone else (I wish they would do buckets of chicken without the fries for a slightly lower price; I make very nice homemade fries with my airfryer). McDonald's have always generally prided themselves on their fries but for KFC they seem to be an afterthought, and I don't believe their American branches sell them.
By 1970s and early 1980s standards Little Chef/Wimpy/McDonald's/KFC were probably all quite good, especially considering that most independent cafes at the time outside of certain inner city areas were poor quality Greasy Spoon type places. The Little Chef and Wimpy menus had some similarity with independent Greasy Spoon cafes, although unlike many of them, both these chains tended to have quite a welcoming feel - they didn't generally smell of hot fat and put a reasonable amount of effort on making their interiors nice for the fashion of the time.
I remember eating in the Cardiff Gate Little Chef in (I think) 2006 when I was about 6. At the time the amenity building looked like this, without any operator branding (this photo was taken in 2000 but from what I recall it looked identical in 2006):
Who exactly was the operator of this MSA prior to Welcome Break's takeover? The site had originally been operated by Granada, yet was never rebranded to Moto unlike every other Granada motorway services. At the same time, it retained pretty much all Granada-era brands and fittings aside from the Granada branding being removed. From what I can find, its pre-Welcome Break owner was actually the business park management, which made it something of an oddity for a motorway service area. Would it have been better described as a rest area?
Glenn A wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 16:51
KFC is the anti Christ, another vile chain of American fast food " restaurants" that infest roadsides and city centres. Little Chef at least was a decent British institution for three decades and quite traditional until later on with its old style customer service.
There was a time in the 80s I remember KFC being a treat, it tasted quite nice. The last few times I've went to one over the past few years it's been disappointing with chicken that is both greasy and dry, tasteless coating, awful chips, watery gravy, filthy tables, understaffed, broken drive through microphones and always a wait for what used to be "fast" food.
The only Little Chef I got to visit was Kilmarnock on the way to Glasgow in the late 90s, I remember it being an alright feed. Sadly now (seems post 2011 from GSV history) a McDonalds with a 90 minute parking fine.
I empathise with every one of your negative experiences of KFC and could add more besides. However, one of my sons loves KFC so I've been in them far more often than I would have liked in recent years. I've found there is a great deal of difference between different restaurants. If you go back to bad one, e.g. Perth, it'll be bad again. I'd recommend the Cumbernauld one if you're looking for one in the Greater Glasgow area. I'm quite partial to a Zinger Burger (or even Zinger Stacker) Meal which is rather tasty.
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 17:01
McDonald's have always generally prided themselves on their fries but for KFC they seem to be an afterthought, and I don't believe their American branches sell them.
Admittedly KFC isn't usually my first choice for fast-food fried chicken, I generally prefer to get that from Jack's, Popeyes, Bojangles, or Publix, but I don't ever recall seeing and/or having any fries at KFC when I have been. Admittedly, McDonald's fries are about the only thing I like to get from them.
Probably busy documenting grade crossings in the southeastern United States.
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 17:01
McDonald's have always generally prided themselves on their fries but for KFC they seem to be an afterthought, and I don't believe their American branches sell them.
Admittedly KFC isn't usually my first choice for fast-food fried chicken, I generally prefer to get that from Jack's, Popeyes, Bojangles, or Publix, but I don't ever recall seeing and/or having any fries at KFC when I have been. Admittedly, McDonald's fries are about the only thing I like to get from them.
Many of KFC's deals come with fries in my experience, and they generally look mediocre at best - I've always thrown out their fries and wish they started offering UK meal deals without them for a slightly lower price. I make some very nice homemade fries to what would probably be considered a good recipe but to late 20th Century salt levels (though this does mean that I never have to add salt to them). Here's what my homemade fries look like alongside my own-recipe steak sandwich:
I have a feeling that my homemade fries taste a tiny bit like some of the ones that the Las Iguanas chain served during the early 2000s based on my vague memory from when I was 3/4.
I like KFC for an occasional treat, but the fried chicken from the copycat stores seems that bit more tasty (greasy!) and is far cheaper. I have no problem with KFC fries apart from the portions being tiny.
I just wish that Boojums had more than one site on this side of the Irish Sea and that Wasabi had sites outside the city centres.
Big Nick wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 01:05
I like KFC for an occasional treat, but the fried chicken from the copycat stores seems that bit more tasty (greasy!) and is far cheaper. I have no problem with KFC fries apart from the portions being tiny.
I just wish that Boojums had more than one site on this side of the Irish Sea and that Wasabi had sites outside the city centres.
Wow I never thought I'd see Boojum mentioned. I even wish they had more NI stores outside the city centre, Lisburn Road is my closest and even that it's a half hour drive to get to, not doable for lunch.
Little Chef's biggest problem was that by the mid/late 00s it was massively easier to find somewhere to eat near a main road (via online mapping) rather than having to rely on being directly accessible off it. As mentioned Supermarket Cafes and more food orientated pubs can provide for the sit-down dinner crowd while the various fast food and coffee shops are there for the grab-and-go folks.
Locally, the LC at Dolgellau has been a Starbucks for many years now, and is considerably more popular than it was while being an LC. A similar thing has happened at Llanelwedd/Builth Wells where the previously 50/50 Burger King and Little Chef is now 100% Burger King and again a lot more popular than LC ever was.
Also, it seems that there are a number of "big petrol stations" or "mini services" popping up near main roads over the last few years. For example in Ruabon there's now a 24hr Shell station with a Costa, Greggs and Subway just off the A483/A539 junction, which is much larger and more accessible than where the LC was (which was northbound only). Oswestry also has a cluster of Fast Food outlets and an OK Diner at Mile End (A483/A5) where the LC used to be.
I personally tend to stop at a newly opened Five Guys near Telford that's just off the M54 and has a Sainbury's petrol station next door. All the bonuses of a decent burger and fries plus reasonably priced fuel.
Big Nick wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 01:05
I like KFC for an occasional treat, but the fried chicken from the copycat stores seems that bit more tasty (greasy!) and is far cheaper. I have no problem with KFC fries apart from the portions being tiny.
I just wish that Boojums had more than one site on this side of the Irish Sea and that Wasabi had sites outside the city centres.
IIRC there is a Wasabi at Bluewater, but it can be a bit of a faff to dive off the A2 or M25 to park and get back.
rhyds wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 13:16
Little Chef's biggest problem was that by the mid/late 00s it was massively easier to find somewhere to eat near a main road (via online mapping) rather than having to rely on being directly accessible off it. As mentioned Supermarket Cafes and more food orientated pubs can provide for the sit-down dinner crowd while the various fast food and coffee shops are there for the grab-and-go folks.
Locally, the LC at Dolgellau has been a Starbucks for many years now, and is considerably more popular than it was while being an LC. A similar thing has happened at Llanelwedd/Builth Wells where the previously 50/50 Burger King and Little Chef is now 100% Burger King and again a lot more popular than LC ever was.
Also, it seems that there are a number of "big petrol stations" or "mini services" popping up near main roads over the last few years. For example in Ruabon there's now a 24hr Shell station with a Costa, Greggs and Subway just off the A483/A539 junction, which is much larger and more accessible than where the LC was (which was northbound only). Oswestry also has a cluster of Fast Food outlets and an OK Diner at Mile End (A483/A5) where the LC used to be.
I personally tend to stop at a newly opened Five Guys near Telford that's just off the M54 and has a Sainbury's petrol station next door. All the bonuses of a decent burger and fries plus reasonably priced fuel.
Five Guys? The cow Nandos? You made of money? LC always had the problem of being too expensive and too slow to compete when the McDs arrived, too remote to compete with local restaurants, and too down market to fill the bit of the ecosphere that the likes of Buffalo Grill do in France.
One of the big problems for LC was that before it noticed what was happening, so many different sets of companies were doing the same job, better, cheaper, or more worryingly for any company, both
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums? Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
1) Its very nice burgers where I can ask for all of the gherkins
2) The much shorter queues and nicer seats than the nearby Burger King
and 3) Unlike the KFC, Costa and BK down the road you can get back to the M54 easily, rather than having to loop a busy roundabout or head down the A442
Five Guys is nice, but I always begrudge the price of it, I placed a dummy order there now on deliveroo and it's come up £16 for a burger, small fries and drink (before delivery fees etc). Though my favourite BK meal, the Steakhouse Angus, is surprisingly expensive at £11, but I don't see £5 difference, and by the time you're beyond £15 it's pub grub money (£14 for a burger chips and drink on a Tuesday at one of my local pubs https://www.whitehorsesaintfield.com/menus )
rhyds wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 13:36
I go to Five Guys for 3 reasons
1) Its very nice burgers where I can ask for all of the gherkins
2) The much shorter queues and nicer seats than the nearby Burger King
and 3) Unlike the KFC, Costa and BK down the road you can get back to the M54 easily, rather than having to loop a busy roundabout or head down the A442
I like Five Guys, don't like the prices, so can see where you're coming from. Me, I'd probably still stick to the others, and keep to having a nice meal until either at the end of a journey, or with half an hour to go.
I had a Subway in N Wales coming back from the AGM. It was a reminder of 'don't go to Subway'
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums? Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
roadtester wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 14:03
Even McDonald’s is getting quite pricey now - £7.09 for a standard Big Mac meal.
Thankfully this high pricing is easily circumvented by using the £2.99 Big Mac and fries voucher you can get by doing a short online survey.
Yup, sticker shock can surprise anywhere. Mentally the prices of these things are the price they were when you were a habitué, a McDonald's meal is still in my head £3.99, but I know it is approaching £10 fast.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums? Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
roadtester wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 14:03
Even McDonald’s is getting quite pricey now - £7.09 for a standard Big Mac meal.
Thankfully this high pricing is easily circumvented by using the £2.99 Big Mac and fries voucher you can get by doing a short online survey.
Yup, sticker shock can surprise anywhere. Mentally the prices of these things are the price they were when you were a habitué, a McDonald's meal is still in my head £3.99, but I know it is approaching £10 fast.
Yes - even Spoons has gone up quite a bit.
Objectively, all of these options are still fairly affordable, and I’m sure the increases are often justified as costs have gone up and so on but it’s still off-putting when everything seems to so much more expensive than it was just a few years ago.
roadtester wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 14:03
Even McDonald’s is getting quite pricey now - £7.09 for a standard Big Mac meal.
Thankfully this high pricing is easily circumvented by using the £2.99 Big Mac and fries voucher you can get by doing a short online survey.
Yes this is what I tell people too, though even at that until last October it used to be £1.99. Plus remember to lift your own soft drink from home! Though you can also still collect points via the app for the occasional free burger.
BK is also pricey now - £11 for the Steakhouse Angus meal.
roadtester wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 14:03
Even McDonald’s is getting quite pricey now - £7.09 for a standard Big Mac meal.
Thankfully this high pricing is easily circumvented by using the £2.99 Big Mac and fries voucher you can get by doing a short online survey.
Yes this is what I tell people too, though even at that until last October it used to be £1.99. Plus remember to lift your own soft drink from home! Though you can also still collect points via the app for the occasional free burger.
BK is also pricey now - £11 for the Steakhouse Angus meal.
wallmeerkat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 13:47
Five Guys is nice, but I always begrudge the price of it, I placed a dummy order there now on deliveroo and it's come up £16 for a burger, small fries and drink (before delivery fees etc). Though my favourite BK meal, the Steakhouse Angus, is surprisingly expensive at £11, but I don't see £5 difference, and by the time you're beyond £15 it's pub grub money (£14 for a burger chips and drink on a Tuesday at one of my local pubs https://www.whitehorsesaintfield.com/menus )
Interestingly that's pretty much what I ordered from BK on Saturday vs Five Guys on Sunday, except I went for the big cheeseburger from 5G as I had been stuck in traffic and wanted to treat myself. As for a pub lunch the problem I find is finding one that's open when I'm passing, has parking and a table available without a wait.
The problem with Telford is that the BK at M54 J5 is located (along with KFC, Costa and a couple of Instavolt charging stations) on a LILO on the A5 Rampart Way, which means if you want to get back on to the M54 you either have to go down to the A442 roundabout and do a full circuit to come back to J5 or Take the A442/A464 and rejoin at J4. 5G on the other hand is on a retail park just north of J5 so getting back on your way is a heck of a lot easier.
LC always had the problem of being too expensive and too slow to compete when the McDs arrived, too remote to compete with local restaurants, and too down market to fill the bit of the ecosphere that the likes of Buffalo Grill do in France.
