It's big news in Norwich -and I gather in other places but not being a TV watcher I haven't seen the news reports.

Puffin crossings, the new style pedestrian crossings, are proving to be very unpopular and with good reason in my view.

Norwich is undergoing a lot of road works in the centre just now, which is seeing the old pelican crossings being replaced by these Puffin things en mass. The result is people aren't using them, or rather they're not pressing the buttons and waiting for the green man, they're just crossing the road and car dodging.

The reason is pretty obvious in my view. Puffins have a button to press with the red/green man directly above it. The lights are placed so that to see them, you look at the direction of oncoming traffic, there aren't any lights on the other side of the road for you to watch. This seemed like a good idea, but it's not, it's really daft.

First, we're used to the idea of traffic lights. We're used to sitting at them and waiting for them to turn green. Drivers and all road users are used to this idea, as are pedestrians of course.

Second, when you cross the road, you look both ways. You don't stand there gorking at the traffic on your side of the road, generally traffic flows in both directions and you watch both flows.

So are Puffins a big flop? I give it six months before they're withdrawn. I think they're an accident waiting to happen, and it won't take long.

Derek

The use of Puffins was one of the reasons why Birmingham's Bus Mall had such an appaling casualty rate. Expect them not to feature when it reopens in a modified form.

Puffins have been around since the early/mid 1990s. Not exactly new, though thereseems to have been a spate of installations.
(Also goes to show that many pedestrians don't read the Highway Code, just like many drivers.)
Tony

Mind you, I did like the name of the particular street in Norwich "Rampant Horse Street" - what goes on there?
Tony

I still find it counter-intuitive to have to look on your own side of the road for the display as to whether to cross.

Peter

I don't like them because they do away with the flashing amber stage when it's time to go again.... thereby making you wait longer after the people have crossed....
They installed them in Ware high street a few years ago, thus increasing congestion and driver frustration.... not to mention all the k band radiation being scattered everywhere by them now....
Chris

there are lots of puffins about here. normally i listen for the beeps, or look at the signal heads for road traffic. Actually i tend to look at the traffic/road lights on pelicans too.

If i can cross I'll cross, and if the cars have a red light then i'll cross. Of course i'll look both ways etc even if on a ped xing.

I quite like Puffins as they try to minimise wait time for both peds and cars, through the use of sensors.

Yesterday some mates and I wondered how many people, walking backward and forward across the road would it take to have the cars constantly on red?

Simon

(Also goes to show that many pedestrians don't read the Highway Code, just like many drivers.)
I think that's a daft comment. Almost every driver has read the Highway Code - in order to pass the driving test. To expect drivers to know when a new edition has come out and to buy it is totally unrealistic. Meanwhile there's absolutely no call for pedestrians to read it. Anything new that effects drivers or pedestrians needs to be widely publicised, preferably with a nationally-deliveredleaflet. The Puffin programme has been woefully mismanaged, and there's no way that that can be blamed on the general public.
Adrian

Given there's an entire chapter for pedestrians in the Highway Code, I feel there is call for them to read.
And, I can't name any driver I know (other than on SABRE) who has read the HC AFTER passing their driving test...

<To expect drivers to know when a new edition has come out and to buy it is totally unrealistic.>
Why? They have a responsibility to know and to keep up to date on the rules of the road. Just because the governament tries to make life difficult by not annoucing clearly enough a new edition, or making the changes very obvious, does not remove the obligations on road users.
<And, I can't name any driver I know (other than on SABRE) who has read the HC AFTER passing their driving test... >
I can, and I suspect all those I know in that category are either members/Observers/Coaches ofthe Institute of Advanced Motorists or RoSPA Advanced Drivers Association, or their trainees.
Tony

<< .. And, I can't name any driver I know (other than on SABRE) who has read the HC AFTER passing their driving test>>

There are several contributors to uk.transport on Usenet who enjoy quoting the HC to score points off others

Peter

Personally, when I first encounted a Puffin, I didn't need to scream and sprint down to the local WHSmith to buy a copy of the Highway Code to learn how to use them.

I find them fairly self-explanatory - you hit the button, and the red/green men stand directly above it. In many cases the red/green men box is stategically placed so you can see it from both sides of the road, so you can use them either way.

<< ..I find them fairly self-explanatory - you hit the button, and the red/green men stand directly above it. In many cases the red/green men box is stategically placed so you can see it from both sides of the road, so you can use them either way.>>

Surely the proof of the pudding is in the eating - if, in practice, a lot of pedestrians find them confusing, then they are badly designed, even if intelligent, road-savvy people have no problem with them.

Peter

From my experience, a lot of pedestrians (particularly male teens) seem to have an irrational phobia of assisted crossings of all kinds...
I've used a few myself and (so far) have never encounted a 'confused' user - although the crossings with auxillary buttons attached to a separate post could be more confusing than average:

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. Aux Traffic
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I can think of at leasttwo crossings in Edinburgh that are PUFFIN / PELICAN hybrids. There is no flashing amber as there are sensors to detect the pedestrians but the pedestrian heads are on the opposite side of the road.
Maybe the LA here noticed the same problem as Norwich and hybridised them?

Puffin crossings should be the normal installation nowadays for pedestrian crossing points across England and Wales.

The Pelican crossing standard is due to be withdrawn by the DfT fairly soon and in any case until then, you should have a damned good excuse to not install nearside pedestrian facilities at any signal installation.

The fact that you are having to look at traffic before you set off, means you can see if a vehicle is unlikely to stop. Generally it prevents users from blindly stepping out into traffic just because the green man is showing.

And you shouod not be able to see the RM/GM display of the other side of the crossing. If this is the case then the signals have been installed contrary to TAL 01/02. Badly designed. Badly installed. Badly commissioned.

As for ancilliary poles, sometimes they are necessary, such as on splitter islands, where traffic is approaching from the left - there has to be a pushbutton on the right-hand side of every crossing point, to facilitate for visually impaired users.

Ban the bleeper! God save the Queen.

Book of Sorrows<<And you shouod not be able to see the RM/GM display of the other side of the crossing. If this is the case then the signals have been installed contrary to TAL 01/02. Badly designed. Badly installed. Badly commissioned.>>

Just to clarify the situation at one crossing. It was originally installed as a PUFFIN with the RM/GM on the pole on the side of the pole by you.

After a while, this was changed to have PELICAN style RM / GM at the top of the pole opposite!

I.e. it was originally installed correctly and due to some reason was changed partly back. It doesn't have flashing amber / flashing green man as it using sensors to detect if people are on / waiting to cross.

"The Pelican crossing standard is due to be withdrawn by the DfT fairly soon and in any case until then, you should have a damned good excuse to not install nearside pedestrian facilities at any signal installation"

Do you have this in writing from the DFTor know if it is available anywhere because I am currently designing a few Pelicans at the request of a large county council, I won't say where, andI have not seen anything official saying that they are not to be installed.

I can't find anything on Google or DfT to suggest Pelicans have been withdrawn - indeed, Worcestershire County Council are planning to install a couple on my estate!

A few documents relevant to this discussion turned up though:
Four

There was talk... thats as far as I know. Its one of those things you read from time to time and when the pertinent question arises, you cant remember when or where it was, but that it just is.

LTN 1/95, 2/95 and TAL 01/01 all give design recommendations. As for anything else, all I know is, that the DfT and the GO's *prefer* PUFFIN crossings to PELICAN crossings.