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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 14:41 
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Jeni wrote:
Not quite the same, but in Birmingham at the A38/A4540 junction, there is a similar U turn lane here


Is that SPUI?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 14:57 
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Yes it is


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 17:25 
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kieron wrote:
jackal wrote:
Think urban areas where a D2/D3 has several at-grade junctions, maybe including one with a 10,000VPD B road. Want to keep the DC moving, without overloading the roundabouts at either end? Close off the right turns and stick in the u-turn facility.
Why on earth would you put such a facility next to a roundabout, though? The U-turn lane would have to be physically segregated from the other lanes for some distance to prevent people from moving across early and disrupting the (faster) traffic leaving the roundabout.

If you instead put the U-turn facility further away from the roundabout, this becomes less of a problem as the through traffic can see the U-turning traffic from some distance away and be ready to overtake as needed.

The advantages are:

1. You can use the widening in the central reservation you get at roundabouts without having to widen the central reservation especially for the u-turn facility.
2. Putting it at the roundabout usually means it is as far away as possible from the first LILO, which is desirable since having a right hand entry/exit for the U-turn can create weaving issues.
3. The mainline traffic will be moving more slowly when it has just negotiated a roundabout, and so there will be less of a speed differential with the U-turning traffic.

Though there is something to the disadvantage you mention, I think it is mitigated by no. 3. and by the fact that the version of the idea I'm defending includes a lane gain. This last point should make it safer than the example in Birmingham that Jeni linked to, which is a simple right hand give way.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 13:36 
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Viator wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:
What is also interesting is the use of distinctly British "give way" markings. I thought those were unique to us?

I noticed those too. Painted give-way triangles on the road are not unknown abroad, but I've never seen double-dashed give-way lines (let alone the two features in combination) in any other country.


Okay, it's a late reply, but I've not visited these pages for a while. :oops:

The double-dashed give way lines were once used in some Australian states. Definitely Victoria. I remember them well in the 1970s. I seem to recall the painted triangles too, but they were relatively rare.


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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 15:29 
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This is where disappearing for a few weeks and not checking SABRE comes back to haunt me :)

There's a U-turn lane here on the A41 Chester "bypass". I think it exists as the A41 dual carriageway is a residential road with houses on both sides.

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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 19:18 
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Where the two Chester bypasses merge, both Google and Live show a bizarre sliproad from the A41 turning left onto the A55. Anyone know what this is? I can't see it being a normal road - it's a right-hand exit, it has a very tight bend and it has no sliplane at either end, plus its functionality is duplicated by the A55/A51 junction nearby. My best guess is that it is the remains of a temporary sliproad used because the A51 junction was was partially closed for roadworks or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 00:35 
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I took some photos of a roundabout in Klaipeda, Lithuania in September where you can make a U turn as you enter the roundabout. I apologise that the photos don't show the layout very well.

Attachment:
File comment: Approaching the roudabout. To the right is the road that connects to the motorway to Vilnius.
Picture 129 - Copy.jpg
Picture 129 - Copy.jpg [ 43.56 KiB | Viewed 894 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: You can just about see where I'll turn left.
Picture 130.jpg
Picture 130.jpg [ 38.86 KiB | Viewed 893 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Turning left to join the stream of traffic coming off the roundabout.
Picture 131.jpg
Picture 131.jpg [ 45.61 KiB | Viewed 890 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 17:07 
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GrahamP wrote:
Where the two Chester bypasses merge, both Google and Live show a bizarre sliproad from the A41 turning left onto the A55. Anyone know what this is? I can't see it being a normal road - it's a right-hand exit, it has a very tight bend and it has no sliplane at either end, plus its functionality is duplicated by the A55/A51 junction nearby. My best guess is that it is the remains of a temporary sliproad used because the A51 junction was was partially closed for roadworks or something.


Looks distinctly like an emergency services slip - these exist in the centre of the Broughton Interchange on the M6, for example. I don't think it'll ever have been open to the public.

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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 18:17 
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Bryn666 wrote:
Looks distinctly like an emergency services slip - these exist in the centre of the Broughton Interchange on the M6, for example. I don't think it'll ever have been open to the public.


Correct. To the best of my knowledge this has always simply been a slip road for the emergency services. It’s never been open to the public as far as I'm aware. I have once seen an ambulance sitting at the end of it wanting to join the A55, but that's about it.

Similarly, a little further north when it becomes the M53, you'll find this odd little emergency services slip, joining the M53 northbound and M56 westbound carriageways. However, it's not quite in as good condition as the picture shows. It's slowly becoming overgrown in areas (the start of it on the M53 is in particularly bad condition) and it's very steep.

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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:35 
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*** Late post to this subject!!

I think we're all thinking about this from a British perspective.

In Bangkok, Thailand, these u-turns are quite standard at Roundabouts. In Thailand most roads are dual carriageways and there are many minor roads which join on. Thailand usually uses a one way 'local road' system either side of dual carriage way and there are also various filter lanes that shuffles traffic around.

Things to keep in mind why Thailand uses the u-turn system:

1. Far higher volume of traffic than anywhere in the UK.
2. More cycles and motorcycles (so they don't have to navigate the roundabout)
3. De-regulated traffic (ie it's chaos)
4. Less traffic on the roundabout.

Click here and snoop about.

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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 16:57 
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gaz909 wrote:
*** Late post to this subject!!

I think we're all thinking about this from a British perspective.

In Bangkok, Thailand, these u-turns are quite standard at Roundabouts. In Thailand most roads are dual carriageways and there are many minor roads which join on. Thailand usually uses a one way 'local road' system either side of dual carriage way and there are also various filter lanes that shuffles traffic around.

Things to keep in mind why Thailand uses the u-turn system:

1. Far higher volume of traffic than anywhere in the UK.
2. More cycles and motorcycles (so they don't have to navigate the roundabout)
3. De-regulated traffic (ie it's chaos)
4. Less traffic on the roundabout.

Click here and snoop about.

I had a quick look about, and all the examples of U-turns I saw were joining slip roads under GSJs. Compared to a u-turn between the two carriageways of an at-grade DC, this usually has the advantage of space - the two 'carriageways' (slips) typically have an entire D2+ between them. That reduces the tightness of the turn and increases stacking capacity.

There is in fact a related British example on the M8 (soon to be M74, probably), though here the space is bigger still since there are two D3Ms between them. This example, like some of the Thai ones, involves a diamond type interchange rather than a roundabout interchange - and indeed, there is as much reason for removing traffic from a signalized cross roads as there is from a roundabout.

As I mentioned, I really like the idea of u-turns at busy junctions, where there's the space, which in the UK usually means at flared roundabouts. However, the fact that they involve a right hand entry and exit probably prevents their widespread adoption in the UK - of course, when traffic is chaotic anyway, as in Thailand, this is less of a barrier.


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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 15:11 
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There is a similar U turn lane at the Hanger Lane Gyratory for the benefit of local traffic from the A40 westbound.

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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 18:49 
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Two U-turn facilities at the M62 J31 teardrop nowadays. They're a bit different to what we're talking about as they're essentially 'inside the roundabout', rather than bypassing it. Bird's eye here. Switch to Aerial and you'll see there used to be just one U-turn facility. Presumably on opening it was a simple dumbell, with no teardrop or special u-turn facilities.


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 Post subject: Re: Round-U-bout
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 00:20 
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The A411/A412 roundabout in Watford is just begging to have a pair of these installed (on the North and South sides). Might require strengthening the bridges (I've never understood why they're so wide anyway), but the infrastructure is essentially there.

Google Maps


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 23:35 
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Bryn666 wrote:
What is also interesting is the use of distinctly British "give way" markings. I thought those were unique to us?


I've just posted a photo showing similar markings being used in Santiago, Chile - with a UK style box junction thrown in for good measure...
http://www.uk-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11973/196172770_0916a12606_b.jpg

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