I pass through this junction hundreds of times a year...
Clickity click...
...as I only live a few hunderd yards away from it.

The green straight head arrow is permanently illuminated and, until the road was resurfaced a couple of years back, there was no stop line.

To turn right requires a wait at the traffic lights... or does it? There is no stop line, although there was before the road was resurfaced. It was rather oblique, but it was there.

So, in the absence of an appropriate stop line, would I be within my rights to turn right on red if I wanted? (Provided there was no on-coming traffic.)

I was going to say that you'd still have to stop level with the primary signal head, which the TSRGD specifies as a fall-back when no stop line or "wait here" sign exists. Looking at the picture, however, you don't need to pass the primary signal to make your right-turn manoeuvre, so it's still open to question...

The traffic island seems to be the cause of the confusion - unless of course it's there to stop people going from one side road to the other. If the island was missing this would become a standard signalised junction with turn right-lanes.

I used to visit that junction on weekly shopping duties a few years ago. I also faintly recall that southbound traffic (the green arrow) used to have a red signal for a split second interval but most wouldn't really pay attention when the lights are 99% green.

Just what are those signals DOING??

Theres no wonder that traffic signal engineers get a rough ride when abominations such as this are on the highway.

Moving forward a couple of steps, it seems like this guy has decided not to be deterred by the lack of stopline.

I have to say, I'm no fan of straight ahead 'filters' at the best of times. There are several sets of lights round here where you might get two lanes going staight ahead and the signals manage the movement as a filter rather than with a proper set of lights. It just seems wrong! Here's an example... Click!

Doesn't look much better from the side road. There's no 'no right turn' sign, but only a green left turn arrow.

That reminds me of this on the A25 near Sevenoaks. There is a stop line for the ahead movement, but the green ball is permanently illuminated.

At the A82/A814 junction in Dumbarton, this signal's left arrow goes on whenever the main lights go red, so you're always able to go left because going the other way, there's no right turn.

On the subject of signal anomalies, this junction has a strange phasing on the westbound side of Uxbridge Road.



The green ball is completely pointless as traffic can only go straight ahead until the right filter signal changes.

Is the idea perhaps to allow right-turners to proceed through gaps in oncoming traffic, should they so choose, before their full protected phase begins? I know it would be an incorrect implementation, but it's the only thing I can think of.

I think what is worse about that junction is the "remote" ped crossing right on top of the junction on the side road exit.

As far as I am aware that pedestrian crossing only turns red while Long Lane gets its green phase, but it does not affect right turners from Uxbridge Road westbound. I do agree with your point though on the stupid siting of the crossing.

Either way, that site rates quite highly on the Traffic Signals Weird-Shitometer.

I think it is more the fact that as there is no conflicting movement, the stop line can be as far forward as the island, rather than at the edge of the junction.
Also, because the straight ahead movement is not controlled (permanent green arrow) there is no signal at the nearside kerb (as it would likely confuse ahead traffic) so the primary ends up ahead of the stop line.


This junction is pretty much the same arrangement but doesn't have the pointless stop line on the ahead movement or the stupid signal head with solitary green arrow on the nearside.
I think that example looks a lot neater, especially in respect of the road markings (although the access restriction signs somewhat contradict each other....).

And another one in Inverness has the right turn lane and signals set up in a similar way, although the ahead in this case is signalled for a pedestrian crossing.


Surely it can't be that uncommon for a right turn into a one way street to be arranged like that?

On the subject of green ahead lights, there's one here on the A6; complete with pointless stop line. In this case, there's no islands, so the main signal for right turners is on the left..

And there's also this.

Coming off the M27 westbound at J5, there's a lane to go straight onto A335 into Southampton, avoiding the signal controlled roundabout. It has lights and a stop line, but never shows anything other than green (there's nothing that could possibly conflict with it).

I assume they put the lights in because otherwise people might see the lights on the roundabout and stop un-necessarily, and they put a stop line because you're supposed to always have one where there are lights, but it does look odd having a line painted across a slip road.

(Not on GSV as it only opened a few months ago)

This green arrow is permanently on. It was retrofitted after the signals were commissioned due to left-turners stopping unnecessarily at a non-existent stopline.