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 Post subject: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:51 
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Out cycling the other day, I found a number of signs on the B970 and B9152 around Aviemore with large patches on them. Obviously, some relate to the old A9 and short lived A951 (Aviemore). However, some of the patches are curious:

Image
This one presumably has B9152 over A9, Coylumbridge over A951 (with a different destination?) but why has Kincraig had a single digit changed?

Indeed, judging by this sign, Cairngorm is probably the previous destination:
Image

Although, it seems that the A951 never reached Cairngorm itself. Mapping varies with the length of the route, from Coylumbridge to more-or-less Cairngorm, but where did it end?
Image

Unfortunately, only one of the signs had a missing rivet (the top one), and I didn't particularly fancy trying to see underneath at such a busy junction - I would have had to stand in the road for starters.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 21:29 
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I think the map which shows the A951 continuing to Glenmore is simply a mapping error and does not reflect the actual position. As far as I am aware, the A951 only ever continued as far as Coylumbridge. I'm not aware of any second series OS maps at 1:64000 which show anything to the contrary or any other evidence that the A951 continued beyond the junction with the B970. The signs would also confirm this.

The sign on approach to Coylumbridge makes it clear that the road continuing to Cairngorm and Glenmore was (i) unnumbered and (ii) is shown as narrower on the sign, which means that it was not an A or a B road (non-primary A and B roads are shown as the same thickness on signs).

As to what is under the Aviemore/ Coylumbridge road is difficult to guess. I can't think it refers to the A9 as this sign, I think, was put up after the "new" A9 was constructed. It is also a slightly newer sign than the ones shown below on the former A951.

The addition of "2" to one of the B9152 would seem to be a error on the sign which was later corrected. My guess is that a "3" lurks underneath, which is the number of the Carrbridge to Aviemore road until it joins the present A95 (old A9).


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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 15:18 
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I assume that you mean this sign, which I didn't take much notice of as I was more interested in the very rough and ready little green footpath sign next to it! Hence I didn't spot the change in thickness of the lines, or that it clearly dates from the same era as the others above.

I don't know much about the A9s history, but my gut feeling is that the Aviemore bypass feels 1980s, and the signs look to be that old. However, you are quite right, as a sign referring to the A9 would be green! Did the A95 ever extend through Aviemore? or did the A951 not get killed off when the bypass opened as previously assumed? The lower patch in that instance would have simply covered up 'Cairngorm' perhaps.

You are probably right that there is a 3 (or 1 - from Netwonmore) under that little patch, perhaps the whole former A9 was due to take the same number initially, until they decided that the gaps were too big.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 15:37 
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rileyrob wrote:
my gut feeling is that the Aviemore bypass feels 1980s.... Did the A95 ever extend through Aviemore? or did the A951 not get killed off when the bypass opened as previously assumed?

My 1977 Hamlyns has no improved sections on the A9 between Newtonmore and Slochd, and the A95 diverging near Boat of Garten.
My 1981 Philips has the new A9 from Aviemore (south turn) to Inverness, and under construction south to Kingussie, and the A95 in its present configuration. The A951 is still marked, but I distrust the map as the road as far as Loch Morlich and also the old A9 through Aviemore are coloured as non-primary A roads.
My 1984 Collins shows the present day arrangement.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 16:36 
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It sounds as though the A951 may, therefore, have survived the Aviemore bypass by a year or two around 1980, although the more likely explanation is that the mapping did not fully catch up. However, the sign must post-date the Aviemore-Kingussie section of the A9, as it is not green. There seems to be an ever narrower window of opportunity for a logical explanation to this. Perhaps it was simply a bodged sign that got fixed on the cheap!

Taking a look at the BBC Domesday Reloaded site (supposedly 1986 mapping), things get even more confusing:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-288000-810000
The B970 is in it's current shape, the A9 Aviemore bypass is open, but not the new road to Kingussie, and the road through Aviemore is still red. Go south, and the Aviemore-Kingussie section is shown. :?

Finally, I've just reminded myself that it is the B9150 in Newtonmore, not the B9151, which was once in Dundee, so that patch could easily cover up a 1, so making a logical sequence either changed late on when the duplicate use was spotted, or originally planned to be broken by the A951.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 19:02 
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northernlight wrote:
I think the map which shows the A951 continuing to Glenmore is simply a mapping error and does not reflect the actual position. As far as I am aware, the A951 only ever continued as far as Coylumbridge. I'm not aware of any second series OS maps at 1:64000 which show anything to the contrary or any other evidence that the A951 continued beyond the junction with the B970.


If by 1:64000 you mean a One Inch map, then I'm not surprised - there was no revision during the relevant time period.

From the annual route planning map, the A951 is not shown in the 1970 edition, but you get this from the 1971 edition (revision date June 1970)
Image

Then the same is repeated in the 1972 edition (revision date June 1971). Note the revision in mapping style.

Image

Irritatingly, I only have a copy of the South sheet in the 1973 edition, but the 1974 edition (revised to July 1973) shows the truncated A951 ending at Coylumbridge.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 19:44 
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I've got a Shell Road Atlas (produced for Boots the chemist) dating from 1977; I've scanned in the area in question:

Image

Red and orange are 'A' roads, yellow is 'B' roads, anything else is other roads. So according to this atlas, it was the A951 c.1977.

The B970 is shown as starting just south of Newtonmore. It continues north of Coylumbridge until it meets the A95 at Speybridge, just east of Grantown-on-Spey.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 21:18 
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Incidentally, Ben Macdui on these extracts is shown as 4300' - my Bartholomew maps, J & B atlas and my Driver's Atlases' give it variously as 4296' or 4298' - which is correct?

Chris Williams


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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 21:26 
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Chris56000 wrote:
Incidentally, Ben Macdui on these extracts is shown as 4300' - my Bartholomew maps, J & B atlas and my Driver's Atlases' give it variously as 4296' or 4298' - which is correct?

Chris Williams

Current OS mapping shows 1309m, which is 4295 feet. The most recent OS mapping to show heights in feet was the 1:250k which has it marked at 4296.


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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 17:01 
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I've just found the extended A951 in non-OS mapping for the first time. Rather annoyingly, it turns up in a 1980 Bart's Tourist Route Map, by which time it was certainly truncated to Coylumbridge!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 20:21 
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Steven wrote:
I've just found the extended A951 in non-OS mapping for the first time. Rather annoyingly, it turns up in a 1980 Bart's Tourist Route Map, by which time it was certainly truncated to Coylumbridge!

Image


Interesting ... I wonder what the red and white road means on the legend? I notice that the nearby A938 and A939 are in solid red, which suggests that this road may be single track or less than an A road? But as far as I am aware, the road has been a reasonable double track since the early 70s if not before?


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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 20:37 
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northernlight wrote:
Interesting ... I wonder what the red and white road means on the legend?
Single-track. See OS mapping, for instance.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 20:49 
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As I think has been discussed elsewhere, Barts were very slow to update their mapping in the later years, and while the proposed line of the A9 has been marked, updates to the rest of the mapping may be somewhat behind the times. For instance, the map shows the A951 with a substantial kink as it enters Aviemore, which I suspect relates to it using the old Spey crossing and then heading north along Dalfaber Road to pass under the railway - see markers on Sabre Maps. Halmyre's 1977 Shell Atlas clearly shows the old and new routes, reinforcing my view that the new Spey Bridge was built in the late 60s or early 70s when Aviemore was at its height.

It would also be interesting to know whether other short A/B roads are numbered on this Barts map - if the A951 is unusual in not being numbered it may suggest that the number has been removed without updating the shading of the road itself.

All in all, I would take this particular mapping evidence with a pinch of salt, sorry!

Edit, just looking again at Stevens earlier extracts, the A951 is shown as S1 in 71, S2 in 72 and truncated without the kink at Aviemore by 74. This may, of course, be related to the obvious changes to the mapping styles, but it may just give us a chronology.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 21:34 
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si404 wrote:
northernlight wrote:
Interesting ... I wonder what the red and white road means on the legend?
Single-track. See OS mapping, for instance.


Technically, "narrow road with passing places" according to the legend.

rileyrob wrote:
It would also be interesting to know whether other short A/B roads are numbered on this Barts map - if the A951 is unusual in not being numbered it may suggest that the number has been removed without updating the shading of the road itself.


Mmm, it's a very late Bart's! Very hit and miss - the A951 isn't at all unusual.

Quote:
All in all, I would take this particular mapping evidence with a pinch of salt, sorry!


Yes, it was just interesting to note the extended A951 on it, but as I remarked, by the date of the map it had clearly been truncated for at least 6 years.

Quote:
Edit, just looking again at Stevens earlier extracts, the A951 is shown as S1 in 71, S2 in 72 and truncated without the kink at Aviemore by 74. This may, of course, be related to the obvious changes to the mapping styles, but it may just give us a chronology.


There is still a style for "narrow road with passing places" on the 1972 map which gets used extensively in the Highlands, if that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Signs around Aviemore - the old A951?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 07:53 
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I wrote:
Irritatingly, I only have a copy of the South sheet in the 1973 edition, but the 1974 edition (revised to July 1973) shows the truncated A951 ending at Coylumbridge.


I've acquired a copy of the 1973 edition over the weekend, and it shows the truncated version of the A951, showing that the extended version of the A951 only existed between October 1969 (at the absolute earliest) and June 1972 (at the absolute latest).

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