Botched Traffic Signals

[L.J.D]

Presumably there was a perceived need due to the width of the road, then the carriageway was narrowed... Despite the fact I like them, I think I'd have taken the opportunity to get rid of the mast arm liability there, too!

It just seems like a huge waste of cash though to get rid of it after such a short amount of time. How much are mast arms anyway?

Leeds has been doing that rather alot lately with signal installations. This double site had a full refurbishment in 2018 then in 2021 it was all ripped up again and refurbished once again. There's a few other sites where they've done the same thing.

[wallmeerkat]

I was coming out of Exeter on the A379 and wanted to turn right at the Newcourt junction to go into IKEA. I moved into the correct outside RH turning lane and sat at the red light. It's the lane to the right of the island in the attached link.
Frustratingly I watched five cycles of the lights and I never got a green....
Eventually I had no choice but to go anyway when I could see it was clear.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Mdv4wAyeCtejkcLd8

I see that on the google maps the light is red too.....
Has anyone ever seen this light green?

GSV shows a green right turn https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7077722 ... ?entry=ttu presumably possible. Maybe a fault with the sensor?

[OliverH]

Whilst not a botch as such this mast arm was installed in 2015 but if you skip to 2018 you can see it was removed. Seems such a waste of money and time to go to all that effort for it to only last 3 years!

yep seen that example too before. some other ones near by replaced some Mellor's / Peek's on old posts and in 2018 chad the mast arms removed.

[ReissOmari]

Whilst the signal itself isn't botched, the placement of this signal has always confused me, considering it has a right turn filter arrow, why is it place behind where the first car turning right would see it?

If you go back to 2008 on GSV you can actually see it was correctly placed before, but then was moved for some reason.

The other approach also seems a bit botched as there is a right turn filter arrow into a crematorium, which in itself seems a bit strange, however, whenever I've seen it on, its to allow cars into the Alex Stadium access road just prior to this junction, but this contradicts the part time traffic signals just before! There is a loop for the Crematorium but if thats the case, once again shouldn't the arrow be on the secondary signal?

I've lived in this area for 25 years and I think I've only ever seen the part time traffic lights on once, they were't even in use when the Commonwealth Games were on last year.

[traffic-light-man]

Is it a normal indicative arrow, i.e. does it routinely get called by a detector?

Without knowing that site at all, it had crossed my mind that perhaps it isn't routinely in use, but when the part time signals are on, it runs a special staging arrangement where the two dual carriageway approaches run in separate stages and so the arrows are brought into use.

Around these parts, closely associated secondaries with indicative arrows are fairly normal on sites with a late start in one direction and an early cut off (or phase delay) in the opposite direction, but I know that's not particularly likely to be the case in the West Mods!

[jnty]

Whilst the signal itself isn't botched, the placement of this signal has always confused me, considering it has a right turn filter arrow, why is it place behind where the first car turning right would see it?

If you go back to 2008 on GSV you can actually see it was correctly placed before, but then was moved for some reason.

Right turning traffic at the point where it's beyond the island should continue if safe to do so regardless of the state of signals as it has already passed the stop line and entered the junction. If it erroneously stops when the right turn light goes red it will block traffic emerging from the side road and block the pedestrian crossing. Presumably the signals were moved to prevent this.

[Dougman]

The signals here need a right filter arrow as the oncoming traffic is held at red when this direction gets a green. Takes a good few seconds each time for people to realise the oncoming cars aren't moving.

[jnty]

The signals here need a right filter arrow as the oncoming traffic is held at red when this direction gets a green. Takes a good few seconds each time for people to realise the oncoming cars aren't moving.

Same here despite recent works to replace the signals. It's irritating and there's always a bit of jeopardy as you remember (along with the real possibility that it could have changed since last time.)

This junction down the hill is the same although at least there's some skew across the junctions to give you a clue.

Lest you think it's consistent along the whole route, however, you're expected to know to give way to oncoming traffic when turning right here from a road you might not even have spotted before you emerge.

[L.J.D]

Posted this nicely intact Mellor installation on a Mellor thread a while ago. Sadly it appears to have been replaced now but with this mess. Oops

[ReissOmari]

Botched green module replacement, this whole signal looks battered to be honest, different hoods and a missing hood too.

[traffic-light-man]

Botched green module replacement, this whole signal looks battered to be honest, different hoods and a missing hood too.

This one has been the same for quite some time and it doesn't seem to do it much harm... There must be a method to it!

[ReissOmari]

Botched green module replacement, this whole signal looks battered to be honest, different hoods and a missing hood too.

This one has been the same for quite some time and it doesn't seem to do it much harm... There must be a method to it!

There must be some method!

This junction in Dudley has had quite a few green ball LED modules replaced with non-LED ones, at this point it surely would be best to renew the whole junction? I'm not sure of the manufacture of these signals, but they didn't last long in Birmingham, and the ones in the Black Country tend to be on their last legs if not replaced already.

Different signals from the same junction below.

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[Bryn666]

Botched green module replacement, this whole signal looks battered to be honest, different hoods and a missing hood too.

This one has been the same for quite some time and it doesn't seem to do it much harm... There must be a method to it!

There must be some method!

This junction in Dudley has had quite a few green ball LED modules replaced with non-LED ones, at this point it surely would be best to renew the whole junction? I'm not sure of the manufacture of these signals, but they didn't last long in Birmingham, and the ones in the Black Country tend to be on their last legs if not replaced already.

Different signals from the same junction below.

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There's plans for that area AIUI.

[traffic-light-man]

This junction in Dudley has had quite a few green ball LED modules replaced with non-LED ones, at this point it surely would be best to renew the whole junction? I'm not sure of the manufacture of these signals, but they didn't last long in Birmingham, and the ones in the Black Country tend to be on their last legs if not replaced already.

Those are Microsense LSH signal heads and probably at least 20 years old by now. The LED aspects in them are obsolete by many years now, so it's no surprise to see them swapped for halogen aspects. I've seen similar with the early era of Siemens and Peek LED lanterns, too.

This era of LED typically had 240v to the signal head and used some electronics to trick the controller into thinking it was monitoring a halogen aspect. As a result, it's fairly straightforward to swap one of these out for a regular halogen aspect when they fail without causing any issues for the controller, as spares for the halogen are more readily available.

Having said that, I know in West Yorkshire, they've retrofitted some of their failing LSH aspects with Swarco LED aspects to keep them going, which is a nice touch.

[L.J.D]

Having said that, I know in West Yorkshire, they've retrofitted some of their failing LSH aspects with Swarco LED aspects to keep them going, which is a nice touch.

Yes this puffin crossing was changed over pretty soon after it was switched on but other way around it was Halogen not LED. I'd say a year after it was put in! Another one here also had the same treatment around the same time. Why they weren't just switched on as LED is a mystery. I also find it really odd that these didn't get switched over as well.

Also this head has had alot of aspect changes when the LSH has failed in them. The overhead signals were changed completely. They should of been kept for spares. But that whole junction looks scruffy and needs renewing to be honest. They did one half but the second half of the junction is still hanging on years later.

[L.J.D]

This bus lane couldn't be opened because the signals were installed wrong meaning the bus exemption signs on signals were sticking out too far. They sorted it though they are now mounted all in line and have also been changed to the blue bus and cyclist plates. It's good it was picked up for once otherwise the signal on the island would of been getting bashed all over.

[wallmeerkat]

This bus lane couldn't be opened because the signals were installed wrong meaning the bus exemption signs on signals were sticking out too far. They sorted it though they are now mounted all in line and have also been changed to the blue bus and cyclist plates. It's good it was picked up for once otherwise the signal on the island would of been getting bashed all over.

Yes good it was picked up before opening, but why did they change them at all from the previous - https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6921014 ... ?entry=ttu

I would say it's something that looks good on some designer's drawing, but in real world just doesn't work.

[L.J.D]

Yes good it was picked up before opening, but why did they change them at all from the previous

I did wonder this myself given how they are now the exact same as the previous set. That set in general has had many changes from blue plates to white then to blue again and it's happened again! As soon as I saw the box sign installed sticking out I thought bad idea. Luckily it's sorted.

Also at this location I noticed how they used Telent 4G heads throughout the junctions. But the mast arm are Elite TLED heads. That's like an admission that they know the boards on the 4G heads are unfit for purpose and prone to falling off. Assuming that's the reason they've chose different heads for the mast arms.

[Nathan_A_RF]

Yes good it was picked up before opening, but why did they change them at all from the previous - https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6921014 ... ?entry=ttu

Because those signs are not allowed in signal heads. They are unnecessary anyway.

[ReissOmari]

Yes good it was picked up before opening, but why did they change them at all from the previous

I did wonder this myself given how they are now the exact same as the previous set. That set in general has had many changes from blue plates to white then to blue again and it's happened again! As soon as I saw the box sign installed sticking out I thought bad idea. Luckily it's sorted.

Also at this location I noticed how they used Telent 4G heads throughout the junctions. But the mast arm are Elite TLED heads. That's like an admission that they know the boards on the 4G heads are unfit for purpose and prone to falling off. Assuming that's the reason they've chose different heads for the mast arms.

Telent 4G's are so ugly. Much prefer the sleekness of Elite's (apart from the ones where the boards slowly turn green!!)