Selly Oak Bypass

[JamesA44]

I haven't driven eastbound on the A38 through Selly Oak since these works have been done, so I wonder if it's the same here? i.e. that the left turn feels "natural", or whether it feels so forced that a lot of people would carry straight on anyway if they were heading into the City Centre?

Difference from Northfield is the 'old' straight on city-bound is still clearly straight on, as per my last photo. You can also see that the carriageway is marked with left arrows to continue on the A38. The scheme plan also clearly shows the layout.

I do wonder, then, how many people will be willing to make a conscious left turn off a road they know leads to the City Centre. The small number of people who follow the road number will do, but otherwise locals and those following out-of-date sat-navs will probably not do the big loop, and carry straight on. I'm not sure whether the 20 limit on the old road is off-putting enough - we shall see.

[Bryn666]

I haven't driven eastbound on the A38 through Selly Oak since these works have been done, so I wonder if it's the same here? i.e. that the left turn feels "natural", or whether it feels so forced that a lot of people would carry straight on anyway if they were heading into the City Centre?

Difference from Northfield is the 'old' straight on city-bound is still clearly straight on, as per my last photo. You can also see that the carriageway is marked with left arrows to continue on the A38. The scheme plan also clearly shows the layout.

I do wonder, then, how many people will be willing to make a conscious left turn off a road they know leads to the City Centre. The small number of people who follow the road number will do, but otherwise locals and those following out-of-date sat-navs will probably not do the big loop, and carry straight on. I'm not sure whether the 20 limit on the old road is off-putting enough - we shall see.

Off-peak even with the 20 it's still quicker to go up through Selly Oak. I am baffled as to why you'd spend all the money on bypassing Selly Oak as BCC have, and not make it unattractive to use the old road as a short-cut. This is a district centre that should have been filtered.

[Chris Bertram]

Difference from Northfield is the 'old' straight on city-bound is still clearly straight on, as per my last photo. You can also see that the carriageway is marked with left arrows to continue on the A38. The scheme plan also clearly shows the layout.

I do wonder, then, how many people will be willing to make a conscious left turn off a road they know leads to the City Centre. The small number of people who follow the road number will do, but otherwise locals and those following out-of-date sat-navs will probably not do the big loop, and carry straight on. I'm not sure whether the 20 limit on the old road is off-putting enough - we shall see.

Off-peak even with the 20 it's still quicker to go up through Selly Oak. I am baffled as to why you'd spend all the money on bypassing Selly Oak as BCC have, and not make it unattractive to use the old road as a short-cut. This is a district centre that should have been filtered.

It's Birmingham City Council, duh! A bunch of people who couldn't find an obvious solution if it came to them in a document headed "Obvious Solution - open here", in an envelope marked in big red letters OBVIOUS SOLUTION INSIDE.

[Bryn666]

I do wonder, then, how many people will be willing to make a conscious left turn off a road they know leads to the City Centre. The small number of people who follow the road number will do, but otherwise locals and those following out-of-date sat-navs will probably not do the big loop, and carry straight on. I'm not sure whether the 20 limit on the old road is off-putting enough - we shall see.

Off-peak even with the 20 it's still quicker to go up through Selly Oak. I am baffled as to why you'd spend all the money on bypassing Selly Oak as BCC have, and not make it unattractive to use the old road as a short-cut. This is a district centre that should have been filtered.

It's Birmingham City Council, duh! A bunch of people who couldn't find an obvious solution if it came to them in a document headed "Obvious Solution - open here", in an envelope marked in big red letters OBVIOUS SOLUTION INSIDE.

Touché!

[ais523]

I'm still confused at the purpose of bypassing an S4 using an S2 (even if parked vehicles meant that the S4 typically only had S2 levels of capacity).

I've heard rumours that the plan is to declassify the B384 and reduce it to S2, which may well end up leaving the road network with less capacity than when it started.

It's also worth pointing out that the chronic congestion on the B384 was actually fairly useful for pedestrians (except in the dead of night, if there was a red light anywhere on the road, all the traffic would stop, meaning that the entire road basically became a light-controlled crossing and was very easy to cross; I've mentally named the act of crossing a road near a crossing by walking through a queue at a red light on one side of the road, and an empty carriageway due to a pedestrian crossing preventing vehicles reaching it on the other, as the "Selly Oak Manoeuvre"). I'm not sure whether the new layout of the B384 will be any better in terms of crossing the road, especially if the traffic is doing a mix of 20 and 30. Hopefully there will be less traffic fumes, though (and wider pavements would also be helpful).

[ABB125]

I'm still confused at the purpose of bypassing an S4 using an S2 (even if parked vehicles meant that the S4 typically only had S2 levels of capacity).

I've heard rumours that the plan is to declassify the B384 and reduce it to S2, which may well end up leaving the road network with less capacity than when it started.

It's also worth pointing out that the chronic congestion on the B384 was actually fairly useful for pedestrians (except in the dead of night, if there was a red light anywhere on the road, all the traffic would stop, meaning that the entire road basically became a light-controlled crossing and was very easy to cross; I've mentally named the act of crossing a road near a crossing by walking through a queue at a red light on one side of the road, and an empty carriageway due to a pedestrian crossing preventing vehicles reaching it on the other, as the "Selly Oak Manoeuvre"). I'm not sure whether the new layout of the B384 will be any better in terms of crossing the road, especially if the traffic is doing a mix of 20 and 30. Hopefully there will be less traffic fumes, though (and wider pavements would also be helpful).

It already has been reduced to S2, with a new "temporary Covid-style" cycle lane going downhill and parking bays going uphill.

[Chris5156]

I'm still confused at the purpose of bypassing an S4 using an S2 (even if parked vehicles meant that the S4 typically only had S2 levels of capacity).

If the old road was through a shopping district, with lots of pedestrians, vehicles maneuvering to park, etc etc, then an unobstructed S2 road without multiple traffic lights and other hold-ups will almost certainly flow better. It will also take moving traffic away from people and vehicles that are trying to access and service the shopping district, which is a benefit in itself.

What's not clear to me (or anyone else, reading this thread) is why the old road is still available for through traffic. The greatest benefit is surely to either pedestrianise it or at least turn it into a dead end for motor traffic.

[Chris Bertram]

I'm still confused at the purpose of bypassing an S4 using an S2 (even if parked vehicles meant that the S4 typically only had S2 levels of capacity).

If the old road was through a shopping district, with lots of pedestrians, vehicles maneuvering to park, etc etc, then an unobstructed S2 road without multiple traffic lights and other hold-ups will almost certainly flow better. It will also take moving traffic away from people and vehicles that are trying to access and service the shopping district, which is a benefit in itself.

What's not clear to me (or anyone else, reading this thread) is why the old road is still available for through traffic. The greatest benefit is surely to either pedestrianise it or at least turn it into a dead end for motor traffic.

The new road (between its ends) has two roundabout junctions - one with A4040 and a retail park, the other with the road to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital - and a signal-controlled junction at Gibbins Road, plus at least one signalised crossing by the University. It is also a slightly longer way round. However it is mostly WS2, and not obstructed by parked vehicles, and I find it quicker than the old road, which also has signalised junctions and crossings. I'm not sure why D2 was not chosen for the new road, as it was for Northfield, though I suspect that land availability may have been a factor. As for not shutting off the old road, which end would you close, there is an impact on delivery vehicles either way.

[mapboy]

What's not clear to me (or anyone else, reading this thread) is why the old road is still available for through traffic. The greatest benefit is surely to either pedestrianise it or at least turn it into a dead end for motor traffic.

I'm not convinced that pedestrianisation would have the desired result. A lot of the traffic that continues onto the B384 uses it to access the residential portion of Selly Oak, which is easily observed by standing at the junctions of roads such as Heeley or Dawlish Road. Whilst pedestrianisation would discourage traffic along the A38 axis, the local traffic would just be redistributed to one end of the by-pass or along other local roads. Raddlebarn Road (at the south end of Selly Oak) is busy in itself and the set of junctions where Aston Webb Boulevard, Bristol Road and Bournbrook Road meet quickly clog up each other as it stands.

[Bryn666]

I'm still confused at the purpose of bypassing an S4 using an S2 (even if parked vehicles meant that the S4 typically only had S2 levels of capacity).

If the old road was through a shopping district, with lots of pedestrians, vehicles maneuvering to park, etc etc, then an unobstructed S2 road without multiple traffic lights and other hold-ups will almost certainly flow better. It will also take moving traffic away from people and vehicles that are trying to access and service the shopping district, which is a benefit in itself.

What's not clear to me (or anyone else, reading this thread) is why the old road is still available for through traffic. The greatest benefit is surely to either pedestrianise it or at least turn it into a dead end for motor traffic.

The new road (between its ends) has two roundabout junctions - one with A4040 and a retail park, the other with the road to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital - and a signal-controlled junction at Gibbins Road, plus at least one signalised crossing by the University. It is also a slightly longer way round. However it is mostly WS2, and not obstructed by parked vehicles, and I find it quicker than the old road, which also has signalised junctions and crossings. I'm not sure why D2 was not chosen for the new road, as it was for Northfield, though I suspect that land availability may have been a factor. As for not shutting off the old road, which end would you close, there is an impact on delivery vehicles either way.

Prohibition of driving except buses, taxis, cycles, and loading. Enforceable by ANPR, no need to build a physical blockage and impede deliveries.

[Chris Bertram]

If the old road was through a shopping district, with lots of pedestrians, vehicles maneuvering to park, etc etc, then an unobstructed S2 road without multiple traffic lights and other hold-ups will almost certainly flow better. It will also take moving traffic away from people and vehicles that are trying to access and service the shopping district, which is a benefit in itself.

What's not clear to me (or anyone else, reading this thread) is why the old road is still available for through traffic. The greatest benefit is surely to either pedestrianise it or at least turn it into a dead end for motor traffic.

The new road (between its ends) has two roundabout junctions - one with A4040 and a retail park, the other with the road to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital - and a signal-controlled junction at Gibbins Road, plus at least one signalised crossing by the University. It is also a slightly longer way round. However it is mostly WS2, and not obstructed by parked vehicles, and I find it quicker than the old road, which also has signalised junctions and crossings. I'm not sure why D2 was not chosen for the new road, as it was for Northfield, though I suspect that land availability may have been a factor. As for not shutting off the old road, which end would you close, there is an impact on delivery vehicles either way.

Prohibition of driving except buses, taxis, cycles, and loading. Enforceable by ANPR, no need to build a physical blockage and impede deliveries.

"Except for Access", I hope?

[Bryn666]

The new road (between its ends) has two roundabout junctions - one with A4040 and a retail park, the other with the road to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital - and a signal-controlled junction at Gibbins Road, plus at least one signalised crossing by the University. It is also a slightly longer way round. However it is mostly WS2, and not obstructed by parked vehicles, and I find it quicker than the old road, which also has signalised junctions and crossings. I'm not sure why D2 was not chosen for the new road, as it was for Northfield, though I suspect that land availability may have been a factor. As for not shutting off the old road, which end would you close, there is an impact on delivery vehicles either way.

Prohibition of driving except buses, taxis, cycles, and loading. Enforceable by ANPR, no need to build a physical blockage and impede deliveries.

"Except for Access", I hope?

If it's a point closure you would send residents in at either end and put this restriction in the middle to prevent running through - "accessing the other side" is not access.

[SteveA30]

I had to use part of this 2 weeks ago for the first time, after an apptmt for Tamsin at QE Hospital. About 3.30pm, got stuck in queues around the triangle road works, then fairly free flowing down the A38. D2 with a bus lane so, D1 really. Not knowing the road, I just copied the locals. No-one in the bus lane and the speed limit signs were greyed out but the camera signs not. I assumed it used to be 40 and was now 30 but, couldn't be sure. Is it legal to grey out limit signs with no indication of the actual limit? I may have missed a new sign, as I was concentrating on not doing anything wrong and it was raining and the screen was misting up.
There were right turn refuges that were too small, and the queues blocked the outer lane. I assumed this was a 1930's or 50's road. At a signalled crossroads that may have been the B4121 but, could have been Longbridge Lane, no-one used the left lane of 3 for straight on so, I didn't. Turned out it was the lane drop ahead. Normally, it tends to be the outer lane that gives way. Only mistake was going straight on at the Longbridge rbt. I realised immediately and U-turned easily on a very quiet road. Nice stretch down to Lydiate Ash and the M5. The rain became torrential but, a pleasant hour was spent at Gloucester MSA sitting at the window by the pond. No diversions unfortunately.