A489/A483 Newtown, Powys - Bypass Work Starts March 2016 - • Opened 14/02/19 •

[Euan]

Having a quick look at the streetview and the signage looks a bit local.
Llandrindod Wells, Llangurig and Machynlleth as destinations. No appearance of Aberystwyth, Wrexham, Shrewsbury, Chester or Birmingham.

Maybe it's the high number of turn-offs to reach certain further destinations, or just the quality of the roads in the area that have made signing places further away less desireable. What's also worth remembering is that originally there only used to be "local" roads in Mid Wales before the extensions of the more nationally important north-south routes in Wales including the A470 and A483.

[AAndy]

My basic 4k video (no sound)
https://youtu.be/qFUpO1O7GXQ
https://youtu.be/V4rF2Fhkho8

[rhyds]

Llangurig et al are primary destinations, as you can't really sign Llanidloes (too far north and a navigational irrelevance) and Llandudno is also too far from both the A5 and A55 to be significant.

As for the A470/A487 splits these aren't signposted with primary destinations.

My mistake, did it used to be - the northern end?

The reason Llangurig is a primary destination is because it's an 'important' junction, but this doesn't happen elsewhere in the country. Llandudno, and Aberystwyth, are the largest towns in their particular direction, places that non-locals have heard of and have some idea roughly where they are, in the same way that you get directions towards 'The North' or whatever. How many people could accurately find Llangurig?

Llangurig et al are primary destinations, as you can't really sign Llanidloes (too far north and a navigational irrelevance) and Llandudno is also too far from both the A5 and A55 to be significant.

As for the A470/A487 splits these aren't signposted with primary destinations.

My mistake, did it used to be - the northern end?

The reason Llangurig is a primary destination is because it's an 'important' junction, but this doesn't happen elsewhere in the country. Llandudno, and Aberystwyth, are the largest towns in their particular direction, places that non-locals have heard of and have some idea roughly where they are, in the same way that you get directions towards 'The North' or whatever. How many people could accurately find Llangurig?

The Forth Road Bridge is signed as a destination in Perth and Liverpool uses (tunnel) on its signs. As mentioned the Mid and North Wales trunk road network is very sparse and goes through lots of emptiness. Places like Betws and Llangurig allow you to show distances to important junctions and mark where the network splits. I'd say the big difference is that while there are places in England that are similarly signed due to navigational importance, due to England's denser population those places tend to be bigger. For example why sign Bridgnorth (population 12k) on the A458 from Shrewsbury when you could sign Stourbridge (63k) instead? Is it because Bridgnorth is a more important navigation node? The size discrepancy between Llangurig (700) and Llanidloes (2,900) is about the same as Bridgnorth vs Stourbridge, but the actual numbers are smaller.

As for accurately finding places on a map, people struggle to locate Birmingham sometimes!

[C83]

My basic 4k video (no sound)
https://youtu.be/qFUpO1O7GXQ
https://youtu.be/V4rF2Fhkho8

I like the use of the roundabouts to terminate the 2 side of the 2+1 sections and prevent last minute overtakes at merges.

[AAndy]

My basic 4k video (no sound)
https://youtu.be/qFUpO1O7GXQ
https://youtu.be/V4rF2Fhkho8

I like the use of the roundabouts to terminate the 2 side of the 2+1 sections and prevent last minute overtakes at merges.

Its a bit different as there is virtually no merge on the other side of the roundabout....there is a single arrow however which would indicate the purpose as you are suggesting.

I think its complements the A483 (& A470) 'feel' and now there is a reasonable grade road from Rhayader to Llanymynech/Pant.

Just need bypasses for those 2, Newbridge on wye & Builth wells and , hey presto, a north south route of alrightness.

[rhyds]

I had a chance to drive the new road yesterday, and found it very pleasant indeed and reasonably busy, even on a sunday afternoon.

A few points:

1: Those arguing for a permissive S2+1 or even S4 rather than the alternating S2+1 are on a hiding to nothing IMO. First off S4s are just a bodge, either stick to S2+1 or go for a D2, and a D2 would be overkill for this project considering that three lanes cost £98m to build. The sightlines are also not fantastic for permissive overtaking, and considering the S2+1 alternates regularly I can't see the problem.

2: The roundabouts are a bit small and require large deflections. While I can understand why they'd be built like this for speed reduction, I do feel they're a bit too much on what is an NSL road.

3: Those complaining about signage may have a point on the local/non primary side. Drenewydd itself is signed from every roundabout, along with "Canol y Dref/Town Centre" on every local sign. IMO this is a sop to the town council, and is only a minor annoyance for a handful of road geeks. I'm sure in 15 years they'll "do an Aberhonddu/Brecon" and sign everyone in to town through one route.

[rhyds]

I spotted a very interesting problem in Drenewydd the other day.

I went in to the town centre at 3:30pm on a Friday (usually one of the silliest things you can do) and had no trouble driving north along the old A489/A483 in to the centre of town and getting my jobs done. However, on driving back out I found the northbound route through town pretty much empty but the southbound lane was solid from one end of the town centre to the other. As I was headed to Caerdydd/Cardiff I decided the quickest way was to drive down the A489 and junction hop down the bypass to the A483.

I'm assuming that this is down to the traffic signals still being set to deal with a massive load of traffic that isn't there any more?

[AAndy]

I spotted a very interesting problem in Drenewydd the other day.

I went in to the town centre at 3:30pm on a Friday (usually one of the silliest things you can do) and had no trouble driving north along the old A489/A483 in to the centre of town and getting my jobs done. However, on driving back out I found the northbound route through town pretty much empty but the southbound lane was solid from one end of the town centre to the other. As I was headed to Caerdydd/Cardiff I decided the quickest way was to drive down the A489 and junction hop down the bypass to the A483.

I'm assuming that this is down to the traffic signals still being set to deal with a massive load of traffic that isn't there any more?

Yep... those signals need re-setting to post-bypass phasing! ...as do the tesco ones, if you've used the store.

[rhyds]

I spotted a very interesting problem in Drenewydd the other day.

I went in to the town centre at 3:30pm on a Friday (usually one of the silliest things you can do) and had no trouble driving north along the old A489/A483 in to the centre of town and getting my jobs done. However, on driving back out I found the northbound route through town pretty much empty but the southbound lane was solid from one end of the town centre to the other. As I was headed to Caerdydd/Cardiff I decided the quickest way was to drive down the A489 and junction hop down the bypass to the A483.

I'm assuming that this is down to the traffic signals still being set to deal with a massive load of traffic that isn't there any more?

Yep... those signals need re-setting to post-bypass phasing! ...as do the tesco ones, if you've used the store.

I'd imagine you could take out a couple of them and replace them with roundabouts etc now that the off peak traffic flows are much lower.

[Stevie D]

3: Those complaining about signage may have a point on the local/non primary side. Drenewydd itself is signed from every roundabout, along with "Canol y Dref/Town Centre" on every local sign. IMO this is a sop to the town council, and is only a minor annoyance for a handful of road geeks. I'm sure in 15 years they'll "do an Aberhonddu/Brecon" and sign everyone in to town through one route.

At least they are signing Drenewydd and Canol y Dref the same way each time! While it's silly to signpost both of them, it's better than the sign approaching Selby that signposts Selby and Town Centre in different directions...

[AAndy]

I'd imagine you could take out a couple of them and replace them with roundabouts etc now that the off peak traffic flows are much lower.

If I was a councillor In Newtown I'd be making sketches of all the main junctions and submitting proposals... such exciting opportunities to get the traffic flows right, and a couple of roundabouts would be a start.

Its not only about flow though, its about feel good factors.... ie: You try and enter/exit Morrisons and its not that nice, even now... but a roundabout would just be safer.

[AAndy]

Its not only about flow though, its about feel good factors.... ie: You try and enter/exit Morrisons and its not that nice, even now... but a roundabout would just be safer.

Its a roundabout now!

A 4th year anniversary video FWIW https://youtu.be/4xG1bpeujyk