Wales to introduce widespread 20mph zones

[aj444]

https://caerphilly.observer/news/103332 ... h-rollout/

Another of the big groups. Obviously along with the rest of the industry they don't know what they are doing.

[SteveA30]

Poole Bournemouth and Christchurch being lined up now....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-67935171

[Chris Bertram]

We seem to have missed this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68471131

Lee Waters, who oversaw the introduction of the 20 limit policy, will by now have stood down as transport minister. In the article it says:

Both candidates for first minister have promised a review of the guidance given to councils on which roads to exempt.

But Vaughan Gething and Jeremy Miles have confirmed that the law will not be scrapped.

Mr Gething has acknowledged the Welsh government got its communications wrong and must "listen to and not lecture" the public.

My underlining. This is almost, but not quite, an admission of having got it wrong. But they daren't say that, of course.

It will be interesting to see what the new guidelines say, and how widespread any changes will be.

[roadtester]

The place where I live, Ely in Cambridgeshire, is getting what looks like a blanket 20 limit. The rollout isn’t complete yet, but signs are already out in large parts of town, and are mostly being observed.

Seems like an improvement to me.

[Bryn666]

Guidance continually evolves, it's quite a leap to say a revision is "admission of failure" unless you've got an agenda.

[adam 1972]

Here in Truro, Cornwall we had 20mph roll out a couple of weeks ago, it's all roads in the city apart from the A390 and B3284 which have remained at 30 in the residential areas.
A lot of drivers seem to be ignoring it, I've been tailgated quite a few times, and seen a few motorbikes overtaking cars at dangerous speeds in the 20 mph areas.

[Glenn A]

Scottish Borders has a 20 mph speed limit in most built up areas. This is a real pain on roads where 30 mph is pefectly safe and means you have to keep watching your speed.

[SteveA30]

Total compliance and obedience will happen gradually, as the 20's continue to expand. Just as Satnavs and phones take away peoples ability to think for themselves*, so will this. Questioning is futile, although such a thing wouldn't even occur to most nowadays anyway.

Not support for speeding, as I only do 60 on motorways, 50-55 on NSL, slower than almost everyone.

* Apparently

[Chris Bertram]

"Blanket" limits are a nonsense. 20 should be a limit used by exception where hazard density is greater than normal. Applying such a limit to a wide main road is asking for it to be disobeyed.

[Bryn666]

Yet whenever engineers come up with proposals to re-configure such roads so that compliance with limits is easier, the same noisy types complain about money wastage.

It's fairly clear the real objection is "I can't drive as fast as I like with scant regard for anyone else".

[owen b]

"Blanket" limits are a nonsense. 20 should be a limit used by exception where hazard density is greater than normal. Applying such a limit to a wide main road is asking for it to be disobeyed.

How is "blanket limit" being defined? Surely 30 limits are "blanket limits" as they are the default limits in areas with street lighting? Similarly NSL ie. 60 on single carriageways and 70 on dual carriageways. Surely they are also blanket limits? Are they all a nonsense? Isn't this just a roundabout way of saying that drivers should drive to the conditions (the main problem being that in the absence of a limit many drivers will judge the appropriate speed wrong)?

[the cheesecake man]

"Blanket" limits are a nonsense. 20 should be a limit used by exception where hazard density is greater than normal. Applying such a limit to a wide main road is asking for it to be disobeyed.

It either leads to contempt for speed limits or drivers spending more time staring at their speedometer and less time watching the road for hazards. Neither is good.

It also slows down buses, undermining attempts to encourage down public transport use, and slows down main roads, undermining attempts to discourage use of less suitable roads. But then we don't do joined up thinking.

Isn't this just a roundabout way of saying that drivers should drive to the conditions

Far too sensible. Clearly an official many miles away who has never used the road is a better judge than someone actually using it.

[Helvellyn]

Scottish Borders has a 20 mph speed limit in most built up areas. This is a real pain on roads where 30 mph is pefectly safe and means you have to keep watching your speed.

It's not terribly well observed there from what I've seen. Most traffic is going between 20 and 30, at least on the through roads when not in town centres.

[RichardA35]

Far too sensible. Clearly an official many miles away who has never used the road is a better judge than someone actually using it.

The officials and experts who have the entire country's traffic statistics and are charged with making improvements in environment and transport related medical issues for the whole network and the entire population will be far better placed to implement policy decisions than any driver who may use only a small section of the network daily.
Yes, drivers may be personally inconvenienced to a minor degree (unlikely to be often given the stated location of Sheffield) but that has to be balanced against the improvements in outcomes that are forecast to outweigh the disbenefits.

[Bomag]

Far too sensible. Clearly an official many miles away who has never used the road is a better judge than someone actually using it.

The officials and experts who have the entire country's traffic statistics and are charged with making improvements in environment and transport related medical issues for the whole network and the entire population will be far better placed to implement policy decisions than any driver who may use only a small section of the network daily.
Yes, drivers may be personally inconvenienced to a minor degree (unlikely to be often given the stated location of Sheffield) but that has to be balanced against the improvements in outcomes that are forecast to outweigh the disbenefits.

It the past area and route managers/engineers would work with the technical specialists and bean counters to get an affective and affordable VFM solution. Neither of the latter two groups needed to no the exact nature of the route but they did have a wide knowledge of the networks and how a road fits in. You may now have problems with limited project sponsors with little engineering knowledge and bean counters with no knowledge whatsoever. So if Wales said they were going to look at providing engineering solutions for more streets where 20mph was a good design speed then git would be great. The problem is not adopting suitable 30mph exceptions for roads. Changing the speed limit is a very blunt (and often not very effective) but relatively cheap bodge.

[aj444]

With regard to buses being slowed and ending up non economical it's not narrow built up roads that are the problem, either such roads are not on a bus route or the bus will be lucky if it achieves 20 mph, but roads like this.

[Piatkow]

Scottish Borders has a 20 mph speed limit in most built up areas. This is a real pain on roads where 30 mph is pefectly safe and means you have to keep watching your speed.

The only problem that I have is forgetting to reset or cancel the speed limiter when the limit increases

[Chris Bertram]

The U-turn begins, though of course not presented as such. Apologies for linking to a Retch plc site, the text is in there between the adverts, I promise.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... DZBsjSX2UI

[Scratchwood]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68859568

On the BBC as well

Some roads in Wales will revert to 30mph following backlash at the Welsh government's £34m default 20mph policy.
Transport minister Ken Skates said the changes will address the concerns that "a lot of people" have raised "on a consistent basis".
"We've put our hands up to say the guidance has to be corrected," he said.
Swansea council leader Rob Stewart welcomed the change, but said the government must help foot the bill to swap signage.
Mr Skates highlighted the almost half a million signatures to a Senedd petition opposing the policy, brought in under former first minister Mark Drakeford and his transport minister Lee Waters.
"I have friends and family who have signed the petition," he said.

[fras]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68859568

On the BBC as well

Some roads in Wales will revert to 30mph following backlash at the Welsh government's £34m default 20mph policy.
Transport minister Ken Skates said the changes will address the concerns that "a lot of people" have raised "on a consistent basis".
"We've put our hands up to say the guidance has to be corrected," he said.
Swansea council leader Rob Stewart welcomed the change, but said the government must help foot the bill to swap signage.
Mr Skates highlighted the almost half a million signatures to a Senedd petition opposing the policy, brought in under former first minister Mark Drakeford and his transport minister Lee Waters.
"I have friends and family who have signed the petition," he said.

Can there be an election coming up ? Surely not !