Dualling the A1237

[KeithW]

I'm not sure that leaving the roundabouts in place will do much to reduce travel times as really it should be built as a through route with a GSJ junction at the B1363 with the old road with roundabouts retained as a local access route. but at least it will increase capacity, and hopefully reduce congestion, on what is an extremely busy road.

Realistically to make a difference you would also have to GSJ the roundabouts for the Haxby and Strensall Roads and the money is just not there to do that.

[NICK 647063]

I’d say anything is an improvement and the dual lane roundabouts will cope, the busiest section between A19 and A59 is phase 2 and more complex due to river and railway crossings, I do suspect many will switch to using the dualled sections which could take pressure off the unimproved section of the A1237…. Either way finally it’s going ahead.

[Rillington]

At this time, cost would certainly prove to be too great to dual the section between the A19 and A59 as you'd need to build a second bridge to cross the River Ouse and the ECML.

[Rillington]

Following the recent news that the A1237 between Hop Grove and the A19 is to become a dual carriageway, albeit with the roundabouts retained, what are the views regarding dualling any, some or all of the road.

Also, should any of the roundabouts be retained on any dualled section or should they be removed from the through route which if so a parallel new road round have to be built with the current tarmac and roundabouts retained for local access, with maybe just one intermediate GSJ at the the B1363.

[Mark Hewitt]

With dual it means the queues will be half as long*

*And twice as wide.

[danfw194]

In a fantasy world, you'd like to see the whole lot dualled and GSJ'ed. But in the real world, you fancy dualling should probably continue a bit further along to the A59 roundabout.

[Truvelo]

You do realise this was planned 30 years ago.

Here's the link to the plans. The junction layouts are shown at the end of the PDF document.

[Rillington]

Correct. Proposals for a new dual carriageway between the A19 and B1363 junctions were proposed at the start of the 1990s.

[wrinkly]

This appears to be one of three threads we have on this subject - with this one and one of the other two being short and of recent creation. Perhaps a mod could merge them?

viewtopic.php?t=43910

viewtopic.php?t=18543

[ravenbluemoon]

This appears to be one of three threads we have on this subject - with this one and one of the other two being short and of recent creation. Perhaps a mod could merge them?

viewtopic.php?t=43910

viewtopic.php?t=18543

Done. Do let us know via the "Post Report" function next time, that way we'll spot it quicker

[ravenbluemoon]

You do realise this was planned 30 years ago.

Here's the link to the plans. The junction layouts are shown at the end of the PDF document.

That just goes to show how awfully substandard it was in the first place - they were planning to upgrade it only 5 years after opening!

Interesting that they were looking to dual it, but also that several of the minor junctions would be served by an LAR. Given that Clifton Moor is still an airfield on that plan, and Monk's Cross was barely a twinkle in the planning department's eye, I could imagine that the LAR would be rammed with local traffic by now.

[Chris5156]

You do realise this was planned 30 years ago.

Here's the link to the plans. The junction layouts are shown at the end of the PDF document.

That just goes to show how awfully substandard it was in the first place - they were planning to upgrade it only 5 years after opening!

Interesting that they were looking to dual it, but also that several of the minor junctions would be served by an LAR. Given that Clifton Moor is still an airfield on that plan, and Monk's Cross was barely a twinkle in the planning department's eye, I could imagine that the LAR would be rammed with local traffic by now.

It’s very much a plan for its time and wouldn’t work now. You’d need the dual carriageway to have far more junctions so it absorbed much more of the traffic. I do wonder how much traffic would have been on the dual carriageway even back then!

[Rillington]

This appears to be one of three threads we have on this subject - with this one and one of the other two being short and of recent creation. Perhaps a mod could merge them?

viewtopic.php?t=43910

viewtopic.php?t=18543

Makes sense to merge them. I hadn't spotted the other discussion topics on this and only started following the publication of the recent dualling proposals.

[Rillington]

You do realise this was planned 30 years ago.

Here's the link to the plans. The junction layouts are shown at the end of the PDF document.

That just goes to show how awfully substandard it was in the first place - they were planning to upgrade it only 5 years after opening!

Interesting that they were looking to dual it, but also that several of the minor junctions would be served by an LAR. Given that Clifton Moor is still an airfield on that plan, and Monk's Cross was barely a twinkle in the planning department's eye, I could imagine that the LAR would be rammed with local traffic by now.

It’s very much a plan for its time and wouldn’t work now. You’d need the dual carriageway to have far more junctions so it absorbed much more of the traffic. I do wonder how much traffic would have been on the dual carriageway even back then!

Not necessarily as the new road would take out a lot of the pressure on the roundabouts.

And to your second point, my guess would be quite a lot given that the road was congested pretty much as soon as it opened which is why I have alwayss held the view that the section between the A64 and the A19 should have originally been built as a dual carriageway with GSJs and a local access route but I reckon that even in the road building climate of the late 1980s that costs would have been too high.

[ravenbluemoon]

I can't really remember how bad it was on the eastern half after opening. I recall when Clifton Moor opened and the western half had just been built (I was brought up in Acomb) I used to go on a lot of runs to various DIY places with my Dad. The bit around the B1224 to the A19 was very quiet at first, but it didn't take long before he went back to the old way of going over Clifton Bridge and along Water Lane. I reckon that was within the first couple of years as the Clifton Moor roundabout was noticeably horrendous from the get-go.

I typically only use the very first section of the A1237 nowadays - from the A64 to the big new roundabout at Askham Bryan/Acomb, and it feels very dated, cheap and quite claustrophobic, even for a typical late 80s build.

[Chris5156]

It’s very much a plan for its time and wouldn’t work now. You’d need the dual carriageway to have far more junctions so it absorbed much more of the traffic. I do wonder how much traffic would have been on the dual carriageway even back then!

Not necessarily as the new road would take out a lot of the pressure on the roundabouts.

I’m not sure it would - that’s my point. It can only take pressure off the roundabouts if a significant proportion of the traffic is going non stop between Clifton Moor and Hopgrove, since the early 90s plan has no junctions between those points. But I’m not convinced that’s true today. I think the majority of traffic on the A1237 is now doing short hops and using it to access the places along the way, which have become destinations in their own right. So I think a large proportion of traffic would still be on the old road because the dual carriageway would be of no use to it.

[jackal]

That scheme has good intermediate capacity as it picks up the main traffic generators at the A64E, B1363 (for Clifton Moor) and A19, while leaving the entire existing road to serve the leftovers. It would certainly be better than the current scheme and would have more potential for future upgrade (especially grade separation at Hopgrove and the A19).

[Rillington]

I can't really remember how bad it was on the eastern half after opening. I recall when Clifton Moor opened and the western half had just been built (I was brought up in Acomb) I used to go on a lot of runs to various DIY places with my Dad. The bit around the B1224 to the A19 was very quiet at first, but it didn't take long before he went back to the old way of going over Clifton Bridge and along Water Lane. I reckon that was within the first couple of years as the Clifton Moor roundabout was noticeably horrendous from the get-go.

I typically only use the very first section of the A1237 nowadays - from the A64 to the big new roundabout at Askham Bryan/Acomb, and it feels very dated, cheap and quite claustrophobic, even for a typical late 80s build.

I seem to recall that the roundabout you talk about was built much later than the rest of the road. Dud its building make any positive difference to traffic flow in the area?

And as of now, is there any need to dual the section between the A64 and the A59?

[ravenbluemoon]

I seem to recall that the roundabout you talk about was built much later than the rest of the road. Dud its building make any positive difference to traffic flow in the area?

It was built to replace three T-junctions on that section - there was a lot of accidents due to vehicles pulling out of the side roads, some due to misjudging speed, mostly due to drivers pulling out into very busy traffic. I've never witnessed any holdups at that roundabout, it's a decent size and there's not as much joining traffic compared to some of the other junctions.

[Rillington]

Thank you for your reply ravenbluemoon.

From what you have said, it probably should have been built when the rest of the road was constructed.