Realistically to make a difference you would also have to GSJ the roundabouts for the Haxby and Strensall Roads and the money is just not there to do that.Rillington wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 16:56 I'm not sure that leaving the roundabouts in place will do much to reduce travel times as really it should be built as a through route with a GSJ junction at the B1363 with the old road with roundabouts retained as a local access route. but at least it will increase capacity, and hopefully reduce congestion, on what is an extremely busy road.
Dualling the A1237
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: A19 to Hop Grove dualling plans submitted
-
- Member
- Posts: 1726
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
- Location: Leeds
Re: A19 to Hop Grove dualling plans submitted
I’d say anything is an improvement and the dual lane roundabouts will cope, the busiest section between A19 and A59 is phase 2 and more complex due to river and railway crossings, I do suspect many will switch to using the dualled sections which could take pressure off the unimproved section of the A1237…. Either way finally it’s going ahead.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
- Location: Manchester
Re: A19 to Hop Grove dualling plans submitted
At this time, cost would certainly prove to be too great to dual the section between the A19 and A59 as you'd need to build a second bridge to cross the River Ouse and the ECML.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
- Location: Manchester
Dualling the A1237
Following the recent news that the A1237 between Hop Grove and the A19 is to become a dual carriageway, albeit with the roundabouts retained, what are the views regarding dualling any, some or all of the road.
Also, should any of the roundabouts be retained on any dualled section or should they be removed from the through route which if so a parallel new road round have to be built with the current tarmac and roundabouts retained for local access, with maybe just one intermediate GSJ at the the B1363.
Also, should any of the roundabouts be retained on any dualled section or should they be removed from the through route which if so a parallel new road round have to be built with the current tarmac and roundabouts retained for local access, with maybe just one intermediate GSJ at the the B1363.
- Mark Hewitt
- Member
- Posts: 31443
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:54
- Location: Chester-le-Street
Re: Dualling the A1237
In a fantasy world, you'd like to see the whole lot dualled and GSJ'ed. But in the real world, you fancy dualling should probably continue a bit further along to the A59 roundabout.
Re: Dualling the A1237
You do realise this was planned 30 years ago.
Here's the link to the plans. The junction layouts are shown at the end of the PDF document.
Here's the link to the plans. The junction layouts are shown at the end of the PDF document.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
- Location: Manchester
Re: Dualling the A1237
Correct. Proposals for a new dual carriageway between the A19 and B1363 junctions were proposed at the start of the 1990s.
Re: Dualling the A1237
This appears to be one of three threads we have on this subject - with this one and one of the other two being short and of recent creation. Perhaps a mod could merge them?
viewtopic.php?t=43910
viewtopic.php?t=18543
viewtopic.php?t=43910
viewtopic.php?t=18543
- ravenbluemoon
- Elected Committee Member
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:32
- Location: Between Mansfield and Göteborg
Re: Dualling the A1237
Done. Do let us know via the "Post Report" function next time, that way we'll spot it quickerwrinkly wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 18:26 This appears to be one of three threads we have on this subject - with this one and one of the other two being short and of recent creation. Perhaps a mod could merge them?
viewtopic.php?t=43910
viewtopic.php?t=18543
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
- ravenbluemoon
- Elected Committee Member
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:32
- Location: Between Mansfield and Göteborg
Re: Dualling the A1237
That just goes to show how awfully substandard it was in the first place - they were planning to upgrade it only 5 years after opening!
Interesting that they were looking to dual it, but also that several of the minor junctions would be served by an LAR. Given that Clifton Moor is still an airfield on that plan, and Monk's Cross was barely a twinkle in the planning department's eye, I could imagine that the LAR would be rammed with local traffic by now.
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
Re: Dualling the A1237
It’s very much a plan for its time and wouldn’t work now. You’d need the dual carriageway to have far more junctions so it absorbed much more of the traffic. I do wonder how much traffic would have been on the dual carriageway even back then!ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 00:47That just goes to show how awfully substandard it was in the first place - they were planning to upgrade it only 5 years after opening!
Interesting that they were looking to dual it, but also that several of the minor junctions would be served by an LAR. Given that Clifton Moor is still an airfield on that plan, and Monk's Cross was barely a twinkle in the planning department's eye, I could imagine that the LAR would be rammed with local traffic by now.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
-
- Member
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
- Location: Manchester
Re: Dualling the A1237
Makes sense to merge them. I hadn't spotted the other discussion topics on this and only started following the publication of the recent dualling proposals.wrinkly wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 18:26 This appears to be one of three threads we have on this subject - with this one and one of the other two being short and of recent creation. Perhaps a mod could merge them?
viewtopic.php?t=43910
viewtopic.php?t=18543
-
- Member
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
- Location: Manchester
Re: Dualling the A1237
Not necessarily as the new road would take out a lot of the pressure on the roundabouts.Chris5156 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 15:32It’s very much a plan for its time and wouldn’t work now. You’d need the dual carriageway to have far more junctions so it absorbed much more of the traffic. I do wonder how much traffic would have been on the dual carriageway even back then!ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 00:47That just goes to show how awfully substandard it was in the first place - they were planning to upgrade it only 5 years after opening!
Interesting that they were looking to dual it, but also that several of the minor junctions would be served by an LAR. Given that Clifton Moor is still an airfield on that plan, and Monk's Cross was barely a twinkle in the planning department's eye, I could imagine that the LAR would be rammed with local traffic by now.
And to your second point, my guess would be quite a lot given that the road was congested pretty much as soon as it opened which is why I have alwayss held the view that the section between the A64 and the A19 should have originally been built as a dual carriageway with GSJs and a local access route but I reckon that even in the road building climate of the late 1980s that costs would have been too high.
- ravenbluemoon
- Elected Committee Member
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:32
- Location: Between Mansfield and Göteborg
Re: Dualling the A1237
I can't really remember how bad it was on the eastern half after opening. I recall when Clifton Moor opened and the western half had just been built (I was brought up in Acomb) I used to go on a lot of runs to various DIY places with my Dad. The bit around the B1224 to the A19 was very quiet at first, but it didn't take long before he went back to the old way of going over Clifton Bridge and along Water Lane. I reckon that was within the first couple of years as the Clifton Moor roundabout was noticeably horrendous from the get-go.
I typically only use the very first section of the A1237 nowadays - from the A64 to the big new roundabout at Askham Bryan/Acomb, and it feels very dated, cheap and quite claustrophobic, even for a typical late 80s build.
I typically only use the very first section of the A1237 nowadays - from the A64 to the big new roundabout at Askham Bryan/Acomb, and it feels very dated, cheap and quite claustrophobic, even for a typical late 80s build.
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
Re: Dualling the A1237
I’m not sure it would - that’s my point. It can only take pressure off the roundabouts if a significant proportion of the traffic is going non stop between Clifton Moor and Hopgrove, since the early 90s plan has no junctions between those points. But I’m not convinced that’s true today. I think the majority of traffic on the A1237 is now doing short hops and using it to access the places along the way, which have become destinations in their own right. So I think a large proportion of traffic would still be on the old road because the dual carriageway would be of no use to it.Rillington wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 17:12Not necessarily as the new road would take out a lot of the pressure on the roundabouts.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Dualling the A1237
That scheme has good intermediate capacity as it picks up the main traffic generators at the A64E, B1363 (for Clifton Moor) and A19, while leaving the entire existing road to serve the leftovers. It would certainly be better than the current scheme and would have more potential for future upgrade (especially grade separation at Hopgrove and the A19).
-
- Member
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
- Location: Manchester
Re: Dualling the A1237
I seem to recall that the roundabout you talk about was built much later than the rest of the road. Dud its building make any positive difference to traffic flow in the area?ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 23:23 I can't really remember how bad it was on the eastern half after opening. I recall when Clifton Moor opened and the western half had just been built (I was brought up in Acomb) I used to go on a lot of runs to various DIY places with my Dad. The bit around the B1224 to the A19 was very quiet at first, but it didn't take long before he went back to the old way of going over Clifton Bridge and along Water Lane. I reckon that was within the first couple of years as the Clifton Moor roundabout was noticeably horrendous from the get-go.
I typically only use the very first section of the A1237 nowadays - from the A64 to the big new roundabout at Askham Bryan/Acomb, and it feels very dated, cheap and quite claustrophobic, even for a typical late 80s build.
And as of now, is there any need to dual the section between the A64 and the A59?
- ravenbluemoon
- Elected Committee Member
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:32
- Location: Between Mansfield and Göteborg
Re: Dualling the A1237
It was built to replace three T-junctions on that section - there was a lot of accidents due to vehicles pulling out of the side roads, some due to misjudging speed, mostly due to drivers pulling out into very busy traffic. I've never witnessed any holdups at that roundabout, it's a decent size and there's not as much joining traffic compared to some of the other junctions.Rillington wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 17:16 I seem to recall that the roundabout you talk about was built much later than the rest of the road. Dud its building make any positive difference to traffic flow in the area?
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Ask me if you want to get involved!
-
- Member
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
- Location: Manchester
Re: Dualling the A1237
Thank you for your reply ravenbluemoon.
From what you have said, it probably should have been built when the rest of the road was constructed.
From what you have said, it probably should have been built when the rest of the road was constructed.