Norwich western link and orbital bypasses

[skiddaw05]

It appears the Norwich western link road, which would complete the northern distributor road (A1270) between the A1067 and A47, has been delayed again, due to rising costs and more environmental concerns (bats this time). It was always rather ambitious proposal and somewhat at odds with current thinking, but if it ever does get built it his would mean Norwich would have a completely dualled orbital bypass

And this got me thinking, I can’t bring to mind any other cities or towns of comparable size to Norwich (or many larger ones) which have such a bypass. Any offers?

[roadtester]

Oxford, not quite entirely DC, is the closest I can think of.

[Steven]

It's time to drag out the ONS's list of major cities in England for this one I think.

The bolded cities are the ones with an actual fully dualled orbital route. Those in italics are those on a coast with pretty much fully dualled orbital as far as possible - for example, it's not possible for Portsmouth to really have more of an orbital than the M27.

All of the others are missing at least one sector - for example, Derby has nothing on the NE side.

Birmingham
Bradford
Brighton and Hove
Bristol
Coventry
Derby
Kingston upon Hull
Leeds
Leicester
Liverpool
London
Luton
Manchester
Newcastle upon Tyne
Northampton
Norwich
Nottingham
Plymouth
Portsmouth
Reading
Sheffield
Southampton
Stoke-on-Trent
Wolverhampton

Of the major cities in the other countries, I can only think of Newport (Monmouthshire), but then you could add Dublin, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee to the "coastal cities" list.

There are a couple of smaller places that I can think of that you could claim has a fully dualled outer orbital - Newcastle under Lyme with the M6 / A500 combination, and Oxford, even though the A4142 is inside its urban area; and at a push Birkenhead to the "coastal" list.

[Micro The Maniac]

York (not listed by Steven) is appropriately the same size as Norwich, in term of population, and has the A64/A1237 - although not all of this is (currently) dualled... it also has the A1036 inner ring road.

[roadtester]

Southend on Sea is a coastal almost-example.

If you're coming from London, you can get to the far side of Southend on dual carriageways (A127 and A1159), apart from the snarl at Prittlewell, although the last bit of the dual A127 into Southend no longer skirts around it but lies well within it.

[Steven]

York (not listed by Steven) is appropriately the same size as Norwich, in term of population, and has the A64/A1237 - although not all of this is (currently) dualled... it also has the A1036 inner ring road.

It's missing from my list because York is considered a "large" city rather than a "major" city with a built-up area population of 141,685 rather than Norwich which just clicks over the "major" boundary at 200,700. Southend is also in the "large" category. Remember that like-named local authorities aren't the same thing as the places themselves.

There's 85 other "large" towns and cities in England alone, which is why I didn't list them all! That category includes perhaps less obvious places like Burton upon Trent, High Wycombe, Salford, Sutton Coldfield and Tamworth.

[SteelCamel]

The bolded cities are the ones with an actual fully dualled orbital route. Those in italics are those on a coast with pretty much fully dualled orbital as far as possible - for example, it's not possible for Portsmouth to really have more of an orbital than the M27.

I would have thought Liverpool qualified for the coastal list - the A5300, M57 and A5758 go about as far round Liverpool as you can without crossing the estuary. And actually there's a full circle of DC, via the Kingsway tunnel and Mersey Gateway bridge, though including Runcorn and Birkenhead into a "Liverpool Orbital" is a stretch.

[Owain]

Oxford, not quite entirely DC, is the closest I can think of.

Cambridge (pop. 144k) could perhaps be considered, with the M11, A11, and A14 completely surrounding it, and all being fully dualled.

Gloucester (pop. 132k) is almost a candidate, with the M5, A40, and A430-A417 completely surrounding the centre. There is just one weak link on the A40, and the A430 varies between S4 and S2.

[roadtester]

Cambridge (pop. 144k) could perhaps be considered, with the M11, A11, and A14 completely surrounding it, and all being fully dualled.

That one did cross my mind, being local to me!

I was just wondering whether that was really 'orbital', or whether it was a case of Cambridge just incidentally falling within a triangle of DCs, some of which were doing other jobs.

[Big L]

Cambridge (pop. 144k) could perhaps be considered, with the M11, A11, and A14 completely surrounding it, and all being fully dualled.

That one did cross my mind, being local to me!

I was just wondering whether that was really 'orbital', or whether it was a case of Cambridge just incidentally falling within a triangle of DCs, some of which were doing other jobs.

You can’t drive a loop around Cambridge using those roads.

[roadtester]

You can’t drive a loop around Cambridge using those roads.

Yes - exactly. That was one of the aspects I was thinking of.

I think the A14 is definitely a northern bypass of Cambridge but the A11 isn't really orbiting or bypassing Cambridge to the East because traffic going north to Norwich would never have gone through Cambridge anyway.

That said, to return to Owain's original point it is surrounded by DCs on all sides - but sort of by accident.

[Big L]

Orbital implies (to me at least) that you can drive around it.

[roadtester]

Orbital implies (to me at least) that you can drive around it.

Yes - agreed. Given that the requisite turn to orbit Cambridge can't be executed at two of the three corners of the DC triangle, that's definitely got to be disqualifying!

[Owain]

Orbital implies (to me at least) that you can drive around it.

Yes - agreed. Given that the requisite turn to orbit Cambridge can't be executed at two of the three corners of the DC triangle, that's definitely got to be disqualifying!

I knew it would be controversial, but just imagine what traffic in Cambridge would be like if you removed one of the lateral routes!

[Bryn666]

There isn't a single ring road in the UK that forms a fully continuous grade separated dual carriageway is there?

There are plenty of closed loop dual ring roads, although these are usually of the inner variety rather than obvious outer ring roads but you either have numerous at grade junctions or have to TOTSO to remain on them. Let's ignore numbering quirks like the M25/A282 for a moment and focus entirely on the standard of the road regardless of how many numbers it has.

In fact I would go out on a limb here and say it is impossible to do a complete circuit of any UK ring road without meeting a TOTSO or at grade junction. That's pretty embarrassing.

[roadtester]

Gloucester (pop. 132k) is almost a candidate, with the M5, A40, and A430-A417 completely surrounding the centre. There is just one weak link on the A40, and the A430 varies between S4 and S2.

At the other end of the scale, Gloucester's sister Cheltenham, with the A40 going through the middle, must be one of the the 'least-bypassed' significant towns in the UK. And before anyone says A436, that's an old, low capacity option that doesn't really count.

[Owain]

At the other end of the scale, Gloucester's sister Cheltenham, with the A40 going through the middle, must be one of the the 'least-bypassed' significant towns in the UK. And before anyone says A436, that's an old, low capacity option that doesn't really count.

Huddersfield would be another. It is very annoying if you have a friend who lives on the other side of it!

[Bryn666]

At the other end of the scale, Gloucester's sister Cheltenham, with the A40 going through the middle, must be one of the the 'least-bypassed' significant towns in the UK. And before anyone says A436, that's an old, low capacity option that doesn't really count.

Huddersfield would be another. It is very annoying if you have a friend who lives on the other side of it!

Huddersfield at least has topography to blame; but the central ring road is quite big. Pity the radial routes are a bit of a tedious slog, especially the A640 and A62.

[Owain]

At the other end of the scale, Gloucester's sister Cheltenham, with the A40 going through the middle, must be one of the the 'least-bypassed' significant towns in the UK. And before anyone says A436, that's an old, low capacity option that doesn't really count.

Huddersfield would be another. It is very annoying if you have a friend who lives on the other side of it!

Huddersfield at least has topography to blame; but the central ring road is quite big. Pity the radial routes are a bit of a tedious slog, especially the A640 and A62.

Okay, Bath then. It's very annoying if you live somewhere like Frome and work somewhere like Worcester!

(There was the train, but that took three hours each way.)

[roadtester]

Not far from Bath - Bristol. That's something of a by-pass/orbital desert given its size and importance.