A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Fri Jan 11, 2019 22:53

I think this entire post has taken a very SABRISTIC course.

No-one seeks 4-digit A-roads in city centres ‘because they must lead somewhere’. On the contrary, they’re just link roads.

If you were a local in Wansford, I think you’d be pretty peeved if loads of people started detouring over the bridge and hills just to ‘shortcut it’ to the A1. It would be monumentally silly. The sat-navs don’t even recommend it either.

The A6118 is only (to the best of my knowledge) signed from the A47 (pretty sure it’s both directions).

It would be sensibly included as part of the B671, but I think that should also be extended back to Peterborough, to extinguish the old A605 stub, which is horribly slow and festooned with cameras and traffic lights.

If you’re asking about A-roads that may have been extinguished, what about the A1109, A1119, A1125 A1127 and A1129 - all of which were in Peterborough.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by c2R » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:13

As ever, I'd disagree - when I learned to drive, and before I knew anything about the road numbering/network, a tactic I'd use if stuck in traffic somewhere would be that an A road would be important and must go somewhere, and I'd follow it....
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by TheKeymeister » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:39

It's not exactly definitive, but if you go to roadworks.org and enable the NSG and Highway Authority Boundary layers (under Operational Info), then zoom in and click the blue lines on each road section and click the USRN it shows details of the classification under Street Details.

The ex-A6118 within the Cambridgeshire area (ie, the junction with the A1 and up to the River Nene) now shows the road number as B671. The section within Peterborough's area does not show a number. I wondered if any of their roads show numbers on the NSG entry, however the majority of others do, so it may be that it's been unclassified within their boundary.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by c2R » Sat Jan 12, 2019 14:36

Cambridgeshire's list of streets lists it as unclassified, except for the access to the A1 which is part of the B671

Peterborough's list of streets still lists it as the A6118: https://www.peterborough.gov.uk/council ... y-control/
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Sat Jan 12, 2019 18:16

Peterborough isn’t that great with keeping up to date, likewise the list of other 4-digit roads I mentioned.

They like to spend money on, you know, aggressive traffic calming, speed limit reduction, schemes like that.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Euan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 21:45

c2R wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 14:36
Cambridgeshire's list of streets lists it as unclassified, except for the access to the A1 which is part of the B671

Peterborough's list of streets still lists it as the A6118: https://www.peterborough.gov.uk/council ... y-control/
It's another case of inconsistency between different local authorities. The Peterborough list is dated November 2018 so the list itself is certainly not out of date, it might just fail to reflect the potential downgrading of the A6118. The Aberdeenshire road lists are also updated regularly yet in places there are still references to the A92 (or A92(T) to be exact) in the days when it went all the way to Fraserburgh.

Presumably the Cambridgeshire section of the road is not officially a C road - looking at the map of the Cambridgeshire C roads on the wiki the road has no trace over it. Interestingly, I have just noticed that the road is now shown to be unclassified on the 250k OS map, despite still being shown as the A6118 on the 50k OS map.
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 01:28

We need to be clear at this point - Peterborough is not in “Cambridgeshire” any more (hasn’t been since 1998 - because it was made a unitary authority - it does not belong to any county).

Though Wansford itself is in the City of Peterborough district, some adjoining parts are in Huntingdonshire (thus “Cambridgeshire”), and this includes the B671 south of the river, the river marking the boundary. Looking at OS, it appears that is indeed the case. The B671 would now therefore begin roughly outside the Haycock Hotel.

Assuming that downgrading has taken place, that is.

But this is all academic. To be reclassified, or unclassified, the council would surely need to publish an order in the London Gazette (as it usually requires ministerial approval). I don’t believe this can be done any other way, unlike with TRO’s (which you’re lucky to find on the council’s website, for waiting restrictions, speed limits and so on).

Yes, it does appear the 250k mapping has been updated. It would seem more appropriate, as I mentioned earlier. But OS have shown inaccurate mapping details before. Usually in situations like these, or when new bypasses have been built. I notice some of the Paston Parkway in Peterborough was still shown as S2 until recently, when it’s been dualled for 10 years.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 02:00

I will admit, I was sceptical when I first opened this thread, but on reflection, declassifying makes perfect sense. Much of Wansford now has a 20mph zone. Having an A-road in situ would seem a little at odds with that.

They’re not mutually exclusive, I know, but rare. The A6121 at Ketton has a very short 20 zone, but that’s not even 100 yards.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Chris5156 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:08

If the A6118 has indeed been reclassified out of existence that’s a real shame because it was a fascinating oddity from the earliest days of road numbering. At the time the Wansford Bypass was built - off the top of my head, circa 1929 - bypasses got new numbers and the old course of the road would retain its existing number. As one of the first rural bypasses of the A1 it was very notable that this wasn’t done: the A1 did relocate to the new Bypass east of the village, presumably to discourage use of the old Nene Bridge which was thoroughly unsuitable for through traffic. But the idea that the old road should retain some sense of importance, and its Class I status, obviously still persisted, so it was given a new number, A6118. That wouldn’t happen now but in 1929 it must have seemed the closest thing to what was then normal practice.
Berk wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 02:00
I will admit, I was sceptical when I first opened this thread, but on reflection, declassifying makes perfect sense. Much of Wansford now has a 20mph zone. Having an A-road in situ would seem a little at odds with that.

They’re not mutually exclusive, I know, but rare. The A6121 at Ketton has a very short 20 zone, but that’s not even 100 yards.
Come to London, we have scores of them! Primary route 20s as well. And any city with blanket 20s, indeed.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Mettie » Sun Jan 13, 2019 21:15

The signs have all been patched on the A47, both east and westbound, and it appears to have been done just before Christmas, I noticed it on the Friday before New Year.

And the boundary of Peterborough unitary authority and Huntingdonshire is the centre of the River Nene, so the northern half of the village (and technically the the northern half of bridge) is in Peterborough Highways and the southern in Cambs Highways area, although Peterborough appear to have responsibility for the bridge, having recently carried out the major repairs.


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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 21:41

This is why I think any downgrading would only apply as far as the bridge itself - or more likely to the junction with, and including, London Road.

The latter could then become part of the B671.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by ForestChav » Sun Jan 13, 2019 22:05

It does seem a bit of a waste of an A-road number these days - and would give it some perception of quality which it really doesn't need.

Did the A1 always TOTSO to the A47 in Wansford, though?
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Euan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 22:46

ForestChav wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 22:05
It does seem a bit of a waste of an A-road number these days - and would give it some perception of quality which it really doesn't need.

Did the A1 always TOTSO to the A47 in Wansford, though?
The OS MoT mapping from 1923 shows a TOTSO on the A1 in Wansford with the road ahead being the B671 - as it still is today. It looks like the southern link road between the "new" A1 and Wansford was in fact part of the original A1 as it approached the TOTSO.
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 23:07

Euan wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 22:46
ForestChav wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 22:05
It does seem a bit of a waste of an A-road number these days - and would give it some perception of quality which it really doesn't need.

Did the A1 always TOTSO to the A47 in Wansford, though?
The OS MoT mapping from 1923 shows a TOTSO on the A1 in Wansford with the road ahead being the B671 - as it still is today. It looks like the southern link road between the "new" A1 and Wansford was in fact part of the original A1 as it approached the TOTSO.
Trying to read between the lines here, but yes, that’s pretty much it. Apart from the fact you’re describing the route southwards.

I don’t know how anyone could come to the conclusion the A1 TOTSO’d, it never did any such thing. Or did you mean the A47?? It didn’t do that either.

The old route of the A1 swung directly into (or away from) the village, as it often did. The B671 simply joined/left it in a silent multiplex, as it still does along the A6118.

The only difference the bypass made was it continued directly north. But at no point did it ever multiplex with the A47. Bar a yard or two at the crossroads stagger on the old route.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by skiddaw05 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 23:55

The TOTSO in question being here? But I wonder if the priorites were still the same when this was the A1, or whether the B671 gave way at this point. What I find interesting is that the straight ahead B671 has the look of the major through route - it's clearly been narrowed in the past further along here when you look at the wide verges.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Mon Jan 14, 2019 00:01

The way I see it is, you can’t have a Top 10 Road TOTSO-ing. That just doesn’t work. Because if it did, that could mean the Ax having to join a (pointless) multiplex with another road.

Besides, I think it’d be fairly obvious that the A1 has never tried to make it to Oundle (which is where you will end up if you carry on past Elton) - the next southward stop being Alwalton.

What the A1 did have was various bends and deviations, this being one of them. It also used to pass through Stibbington and Water Newton.

And again, the view shown is looking South, not North.

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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Bryn666 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 09:36

Berk wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 00:01
The way I see it is, you can’t have a Top 10 Road TOTSO-ing. That just doesn’t work. Because if it did, that could mean the Ax having to join a (pointless) multiplex with another road.

Besides, I think it’d be fairly obvious that the A1 has never tried to make it to Oundle (which is where you will end up if you carry on past Elton) - the next southward stop being Alwalton.

What the A1 did have was various bends and deviations, this being one of them. It also used to pass through Stibbington and Water Newton.

And again, the view shown is looking South, not North.
The F9 network has several TOTSOs and the sky has not fallen in.

Try following the A6 from end to end.
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by c2R » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:45

Indeed; it's worth reminding ourselves that in the 1920s there weren't that many cars on the road, and probably little in the way of road markings. Particularly here next to a large river, crossing points would be few. It's probably fairly telling that the Wansford bypass happened so early in the life of the modern road, i.e. that as traffic levels began to grow enormously, a new bridge and a better alignment was needed.
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by ForestChav » Mon Jan 14, 2019 16:55

skiddaw05 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 23:55
The TOTSO in question being here? But I wonder if the priorites were still the same when this was the A1, or whether the B671 gave way at this point. What I find interesting is that the straight ahead B671 has the look of the major through route - it's clearly been narrowed in the past further along here when you look at the wide verges.
Not quite, a bit further through the village, where this would previously have been the road between Leicester and Peterborough...
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Re: A6118 at Wansford in Cambridgeshire

Post by Berk » Mon Jan 14, 2019 23:17

I’m wondering whether it would be worth e-mailing PCC and finding out what’s really going on??

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