M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

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RichardA35
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by RichardA35 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:50

mikehindsonevans wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:36
Sometimes, a concrete batching plant got it wrong in the past; as usually happens, the lessons were learned and, as has been mentioned here several times, the modern "slump" test on each batch of delivered concrete has significantly raised the confidence amongst civil engineers that the structure will stay up for (closer to) its intended lifespan.

Mike
The slump test is not "modern" it has been used for over 30 years and each load tested before placement as long I have been in the industry.
However it is only a test of workability of fresh concrete not a guide to its ultimate strength or durability. The addition of water on site to "liven up a load" has distorted many a result before the implications of this were realised.

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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Richardf » Wed Oct 03, 2018 17:25

Johnathan404 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 16:14
Another local example is M27 J1. No need at all for that road to be a dual carriageway, but it had to be built so it was decided to build it well.
J1? My understanding is that the DC there predates the motorway. The first (-or last) bit of A31 is also the oldest. I always assumed the section between Cadnam and the M27 roundabout is contemporary with that section and was cut in two by the motorway roundabout when the M27 was built.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Johnathan404 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 17:39

Richardf wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 17:25
J1? My understanding is that the DC there predates the motorway. The first (-or last) bit of A31 is also the oldest. I always assumed the section between Cadnam and the M27 roundabout is contemporary with that section and was cut in two by the motorway roundabout when the M27 was built.
At least as recent as 1966 the A31 went back to single carriageway east of Castle Malwood Hill and then took a straight line from there to the John Barleycorn pub on Southampton Road. If the road layout was changed between then and the motorway opening, it was changed with the motorway opening in mind.

The top of the M271 is another example of a road which did not need to be built as a dual carriageway but might as well be.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Richardf » Wed Oct 03, 2018 17:52

Johnathan404 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 17:39
Richardf wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 17:25
J1? My understanding is that the DC there predates the motorway. The first (-or last) bit of A31 is also the oldest. I always assumed the section between Cadnam and the M27 roundabout is contemporary with that section and was cut in two by the motorway roundabout when the M27 was built.
At least as recent as 1966 the A31 went back to single carriageway east of Castle Malwood Hill and then took a straight line from there to the John Barleycorn pub on Southampton Road. If the road layout was changed between then and the motorway opening, it was changed with the motorway opening in mind.

The top of the M271 is another example of a road which did not need to be built as a dual carriageway but might as well be.
You might well be right. However I thought the Sabrewiki suggested otherwise, I think that's where i got my info from, will have to look again.

Certainly the A31 was dualled with the motorway in mind. I'm sure the Rufus Stone Cadnam section was built early on, with the following section past Stoney Cross westward being the last just before the motorway opened. According to the Wiki at least.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by J6onM27 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:11

RichardA35 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:50
mikehindsonevans wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:36
Sometimes, a concrete batching plant got it wrong in the past; as usually happens, the lessons were learned and, as has been mentioned here several times, the modern "slump" test on each batch of delivered concrete has significantly raised the confidence amongst civil engineers that the structure will stay up for (closer to) its intended lifespan.

Mike
The slump test is not "modern" it has been used for over 30 years and each load tested before placement as long I have been in the industry.
However it is only a test of workability of fresh concrete not a guide to its ultimate strength or durability. The addition of water on site to "liven up a load" has distorted many a result before the implications of this were realised.
Slump is only to gauge the concrete workability, not every load is tested, often it visually assessed. water/cement ratio determines the level of permeability in the concrete (all concrete absorbs a degree of moisture), but does not stop crack development as this is limited by the steel reinforcement. The concrete standards since the 60's have been significantly updated in these years to take exposure conditions into consideration. Highways structures are now designed to 120 year design life which takes account of w/c ratio and the cover needed to the steel. As most the motorway network structures are now over 50 years old then expect many bridges will be continually monitored and those at a critical stage will have repair/replacement program in place.

De-icing salts attack steel reinforcement in concrete by reducing the passive layer of alkalinity in the cover zone, therefore the dissolved salts within water/moisture will permeate into concrete via it porosity or via crack paths, as the steel corrodes it expand more than 8% of it mass, concrete is weak in tension therefore if pops off and therefore the cycle of corrosion and reduction in tensile strength of the steel begins. Junction 4 of M3 at Camberley is perfect example where cathodic protection is being used to extend the life of the motorway bridge.

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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by mikehindsonevans » Mon Jan 28, 2019 14:08

Update from HA advises that the March closure has been deferred to "late June" as a result of "ground conditions".
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... nt-scheme/

Quote:
Unfortunately, the bridge installation weekend closure has had to be changed. This alteration in the programme is due to unforeseen ground conditions. The next weekend closure of the M27 will now occur at the end of June - please check the Roadworks tab below for full details nearer to the time. Unlike the first closure, the A3057 (Romsey Road) will remain open to vehicles and pedestrian traffic.
end-quote:

Mid-summer fun and games on the M27 diversion routes then??
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Johnathan404 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 00:33

What that press release doesn't tell you is that the announcement comes after contractors told residents weeks ago (probably through Chinese whispers), and when residents contacted Highways England for confirmation their spokesperson said it was news to them.

All big companies have problems with front line staff leaking news before it has been distributed internally, but Highways England do seem to be especially slow at getting the word around.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Euan » Tue Jan 29, 2019 08:37

The 29-30 June weekend sounds like the most likely candidate for an "end of June" weekend closure, unless it were to be delayed till July which would be even worse given that more and more people will be on holiday by that point. That said, 22-23 June may end up being the closure weekend instead.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Johnathan404 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:36

Osborne appear to think they've directed a short movie on Instagram.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Richardf » Mon Jun 10, 2019 20:38

Next closure looks set for later this month. I am assuming this is to install the new bridge deck as the supporting piers appear to now be in place.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by SteveA30 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:11

June 28-July 1 Fri 9pm -Mon 6am and July 12-15 are the dates, although they may not all be needed.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by SteveA30 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 09:34

Also, for anyone heading that way, the M27 is closed from J9-11 between 9pm Friday to 9pm Saturday June 14 both ways. Diversion along A27. May take a look but, that bit of A27 old road isn't hugely interesting.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Peter350 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 18:51

Expect delays around South Hampshire this weekend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... e-48796972

Looking at the diagram, it appears Westbound light traffic is being diverted onto the M3 to J11, then the A3090 through Romsey to M27 J2. HGVs are being directed down the much shorter route via the A27 through North Baddesley and A3057.

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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by SteveA30 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 21:45

Much the same as last year. I've already emailed HE to ask if they are going to get HCC to alter the signal phases at North Baddesley and J2 to help flows. We shall see, as I'll be soaking up the glory of the old A31, in baking temperatures. Face sun cream, camera, water, food, folding chair for laybys. Ready to roll.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Johnathan404 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 16:26

The closure is now undergoing a phased reopening, about 36 hours early. The same thing happened with the J11-12 closure a few weeks ago. I appreciate it's better to over-compensate than to under-, especially when you have a Monday morning rush hour ahead of you, but are Highways England getting into a habit of excessively padding out closures? A weekend closure of a D4M (that carries mostly holiday traffic) on such a busy weekend is not something to be taken lightly.

The usual moaners out in force and in general I have little sympathy (what happened to "check your route before leaving"?). That said, the chosen diversion route is silly (light vehicles to leave at M27 J4 and follow the M3 to J11). I want to be corrected, but I bet there are no signs on the A34 or M3 telling traffic for Bournemouth (of which there is a lot - it's the hottest weekend of the year!) to go via Salisbury. Just like there were no signs on the M25 or M40 advising of the J11-12 closure when traffic could have avoided it if they'd have known to use A3 over M3 or vice-versa.

My favourite bit of communication though is this from Highways England:
Why we need this [bridge replacement]
The M27 is heavily congested at peak times all the way between Southampton (junction 3) and Portsmouth (junction 12). The M27 near Southampton also joins with the M3 which is the only motorway between the south coast and London.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Berk » Sat Jun 29, 2019 17:19

Would it not have been better to bring the closure forward by 24 hours?? Yes, it would involve a Thursday into Friday closure, but there’s nothing to stop people making alternative arrangements (take a day off), or making do with it (just as they would (have to) if there was a real time incident).

Assuming everything went according to plan, the carriageway could’ve been re-opened by Friday evening, and everyone would be happily on their way.

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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by John McAdam » Sat Jun 29, 2019 17:34

I think HE should have used their crystal ball to ascertain it was going to be the hottest weekend of the year thus far, and planned accordingly...

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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Johnathan404 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 17:54

John McAdam wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 17:34
I think HE should have used their crystal ball to ascertain it was going to be the hottest weekend of the year thus far, and planned accordingly...
Late June, all July and all August are when the A31 and M27 are overwhelmed by holiday traffic every single weekend. Always heavily congested south-westbound on Friday evenings/Saturday mornings, and north-eastbound on Sunday evenings. The fact it is an exceptionally hot one is unfortunate; the fact it is busy is not a surprise. Was a signposted route provided for long-distance traffic - because their publicity did not advise of one, despite having done so last time.

The Stonehenge congestion would have been a concern but there wouldn't have been that much overlap.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Richardf » Sat Jun 29, 2019 18:48

While there are no ideal times for this at this time of year, I would think a weekend closure, when there are less HGVS around and before the school holidays start is the lesser evil. Weekday closure would affect far more commuter and trade traffic.
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Re: M27 Closure and 60 mile Westbound diversion route

Post by Berk » Sat Jun 29, 2019 18:53

For just one day?? Start it overnight on Thursday, as I suggested. Then you can hav ethe motorway reopen for most of the weekend. If the motorway was closed any other time, traffic would still need to find an alternative route.

Perhaps we need to get over the idea that major works should only take place within weekends/bank holidays. Yes, it may be convenient for commuters, but much less so for leisure travellers. It’s much like engineering works on the railways.

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