What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

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nowster
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by nowster » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:59

avtur wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 09:22
The locals had the width extension up Aston Hill knocked back, didn't they? To the point where the compulsory purchase land (which had been cleared of dwellings) has since been resold and is now developed again meaning that there is no chance of widening the Aston Hill section.
Actually, no. If you look carefully, the CP'ed land is still unused.

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Bryn666
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:30

avtur wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 09:22
Bryn666 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 20:43
MOTORWAY BY STEALTH! Just wait for the feather spitting from the locals...
The locals had the width extension up Aston Hill knocked back, didn't they? To the point where the compulsory purchase land (which had been cleared of dwellings) has since been resold and is now developed again meaning that there is no chance of widening the Aston Hill section. At some point the M56 has to reduce from 3 lanes to 2 and that causes a bottle neck, doesn't this scheme just move the bottle neck from one place to another?
Yes, the Aston Hill scheme seems to be all but dead, which is frankly ridiculous as this is an obvious weak link and the huge expense of a new road via Flint Mountain and all the associated new GSJs on the existing A548 seems to be a sledgehammer to crack a nut but whatever...

The M56 drops to two lanes at the M53, the current D3/D4 arrangement is between the A550 and Dee Bridge only. On a summer weekend the M56 queues back from the M53 for some distance.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by avtur » Tue Nov 13, 2018 13:19

nowster wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:59
avtur wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 09:22
The locals had the width extension up Aston Hill knocked back, didn't they? To the point where the compulsory purchase land (which had been cleared of dwellings) has since been resold and is now developed again meaning that there is no chance of widening the Aston Hill section.
Actually, no. If you look carefully, the CP'ed land is still unused.
I just going from memory (its about 9-10 months since I last drove that way), but thought that where the residential properties had been demolished they had now been replaced with new properties.

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nowster
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by nowster » Tue Nov 13, 2018 14:31

avtur wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 13:19
...but thought that where the residential properties had been demolished they had now been replaced with new properties.
Only up to a new boundary fence line, which is presumably the extent of the proposed widened road.

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wrinkly
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by wrinkly » Tue Nov 13, 2018 15:39

Looks like a hotel and business park on Google, with car parks nearest the road.
(Edit: was looking in the wrong place!)
Last edited by wrinkly on Tue Nov 13, 2018 17:17, edited 1 time in total.

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nowster
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by nowster » Tue Nov 13, 2018 16:21


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wrinkly
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by wrinkly » Tue Nov 13, 2018 17:16

Oops, I was mistakenly looking a little further south. Ignore my post above.

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Herned » Wed Nov 14, 2018 09:52

Somewhat ironic that the Welsh Govt is building dual carriageways with hard shoulders while England is building motorways without...

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Euan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 18:47

nowster wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 16:21
Contrast these:

2009 https://goo.gl/maps/HRT2MQJZUs12
2018 https://goo.gl/maps/nDr1iQUXfYA2
Yes, quite a contrast. Looking through past street imagery of the surrounding area, the land next to the road appears to have been completely cleared a while before spring 2011. The demolition site seems to have been set up some time in late summer 2009, so the old houses were probably demolished not long after that. There does indeed appear to be some previously occupied land next to the A494 left over after the new houses were built in order to widen the road. Have the widening proposals been floating about for quite a while given how long ago the old houses were demolished?
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by wrinkly » Wed Nov 14, 2018 19:30

The previous proposals were dropped in 2008 after a public inquiry but a lot of houses had already been bought up by then.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19111

A still earlier thread is here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14021

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by orudge » Thu Aug 01, 2019 22:43

Technical Advisors appointed as Flintshire Corridor scheme progresses

The article states "Construction could begin in late 2022/early 2023 subject to completing the statutory process, which is likely to include a public local inquiry.", so a while to wait yet - let's hope the PLI goes better than the last one!

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by jackal » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:15

Giddy after their successful campaign against the Newport bypass, BBC Wales have a new target in their sights:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54158085

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Bryn666 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:09

jackal wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:15
Giddy after their successful campaign against the Newport bypass, BBC Wales have a new target in their sights:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54158085
It should be scrapped.

... and the much simpler Aston Hill scheme reinstated instead.
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danfw194
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by danfw194 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:23

Disappointing, but inevitable. Purely from a traffic/roads perspective, the plans are good and would make a significant improvement to current situation.
Bryn666 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:09
It should be scrapped.

... and the much simpler Aston Hill scheme reinstated instead.
Was that scheme simply upgrading Aston Hill from D2 into D3, or was there more to it? If it was just a lane addition, it would barely scratch the surface of the problems that exist, particularly westbound.

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Bryn666 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:38

danfw194 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:23
Disappointing, but inevitable. Purely from a traffic/roads perspective, the plans are good and would make a significant improvement to current situation.
Bryn666 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:09
It should be scrapped.

... and the much simpler Aston Hill scheme reinstated instead.
Was that scheme simply upgrading Aston Hill from D2 into D3, or was there more to it? If it was just a lane addition, it would barely scratch the surface of the problems that exist, particularly westbound.
The original scheme was D4M (but all purpose) with junction improvements including reconfiguration of the trumpet at the A55 so the rapid 3 interchanges in succession were dealt with. It got progressively watered down to nothing.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by danfw194 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:47

Bryn666 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:38
The original scheme was D4M (but all purpose) with junction improvements including reconfiguration of the trumpet at the A55 so the rapid 3 interchanges in succession were dealt with. It got progressively watered down to nothing.
Ah fair enough, a re-configuration of the trumpet would make a big difference both in terms of traffic flow and safety.

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Micro The Maniac » Wed Sep 16, 2020 15:16

"This proposal involves the building of an entirely new dual carriageway across a rural greenbelt, irreparably damaging precious habitats, including an ancient woodland local wildlife site, home to bats, barn owls, badgers and other wildlife," said Adrian Lloyd Jones, of the North Wales Wildlife Trust.
I was going to call "House" on my B/S bingo card - but then realised he'd missed explicit mention of "Newts"

But for once I agree with Bryn... this Red Route malarkey is (I suspect) an attempt to open up the industrial land, whereas what is needed is the existing A494 Aston Hill to be upgraded properly (ideally as M56 through to the A55, but I won't hold my breath)
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by danfw194 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 15:35

Micro The Maniac wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 15:16
But for once I agree with Bryn... this Red Route malarkey is (I suspect) an attempt to open up the industrial land, whereas what is needed is the existing A494 Aston Hill to be upgraded properly (ideally as M56 through to the A55, but I won't hold my breath)
If the Red Route went ahead there would be no longer any need to upgrade the A494 - which I personally think is a better solution than an A494 upgrade (not that I'd be square against it). The red route carrying mostly long distance traffic would alleviate the A494 and allow it to breathe, and have mostly local traffic use it.

And I personally don't see a massive issue even if it was a disguised attempt to open up the industrial land. The red route would instigate big improvements to the existing A548 - the alignment is frankly a lot better than than A494-A55 path.

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by orudge » Wed Sep 16, 2020 16:40

The A494 bridge needs replacing anyway, and it looks like the plan for that is to widen to D3 as far as the Asda roundabout. (The original plan, thrown out in 2007, was for 4 lanes up the hill, 3 lanes down, plus hard shoulders each way.)

However, works from there through to Ewloe would I suspect still be hampered by local objections. Building the new alignment would mean that the A494 route could be limited to mostly local traffic, hopefully removing the idling queues of traffic on Bank Holiday weekends and so on.

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by jackal » Wed Sep 16, 2020 16:57

Bryn666 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 13:09
jackal wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:15
Giddy after their successful campaign against the Newport bypass, BBC Wales have a new target in their sights:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54158085
It should be scrapped.

... and the much simpler Aston Hill scheme reinstated instead.
As mentioned above, "[t]he red option, via the Flintshire Bridge, comes in cheaper (£255m vs. £283m) than the blue online option and with much better BCR (2.77 vs. 0.90)".

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