Darlington Northern Link Road

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jackal
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Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by jackal » Mon Apr 12, 2021 17:27

There was a consultation on this at the end of the year: https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/consultati ... link-road/ The proposal is basically for a single carriageway bypass from A1(M) J59 to the A66 at Burdon:

Darlington Northern Link Road - Copy.JPG

The options for the A1(M) junction are modest but quite interesting. IMO the best option is Purple, which provides a limited access junction north of the existing one:

A1(M) J59a - Copy.JPG

The other two options seem to overload either the new junction (J59a) or J59.

The design at the A66 is for a flat roundabout with a left turn filter - far worse than the dumbbell that was drawn up in 2016 when the link was to be a dual carriageway:

A66 A1150 Burdon - Copy.JPG

PS - Some previous discussion in the A66 and A69 thread but this is worth it's own topic.

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Osthagen
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by Osthagen » Mon Apr 12, 2021 19:08

The decision to add a new junction north of 59 is interesting. It would seem that much the same could be accomplished by plugging the road into the existing junction, although that’s not to say that would actually be achievable in practice.

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by wrinkly » Mon Apr 12, 2021 19:25

Osthagen wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 19:08
The decision to add a new junction north of 59 is interesting. It would seem that much the same could be accomplished by plugging the road into the existing junction, although that’s not to say that would actually be achievable in practice.
I think it could be done with a south-eastward extension of the J59 roundabout, as at M11 Stansted or M6 Barthomley, or an extra roundabout, as nearby at J61. Possibly done to avoid an extra railway bridge.

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jackal
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by jackal » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:59

There are numerous rejected options for the motorway junction in the slides. Plugging into the existing roundabout was rejected for traffic reasons (correctly so in my view), expanding it to the south east or adding a smaller roundabout was rejected for environmental reasons.

https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content ... slides.pdf

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by JohnnyMo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:18

Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by Chris5156 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:23

JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:18
Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
Something something something open up development opportunities something something unlocking growth something something levelling up something something Northern Powerhouse.

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:30

Chris5156 wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:23
JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:18
Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
Something something something open up development opportunities something something unlocking growth something something levelling up something something Northern Powerhouse.
And then "why is this new single carriageway serving 5,000 new houses and 20 warehouse distribution centres overloaded"?
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by Mark Hewitt » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:49

JohnnyMo wrote:Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
Yes. If you're coming from Teeside the only way to get to the A1(M) North is to trek through the centre of Darlington or to go around via the Tees flyover and to the A689 which is that congested that going through Darlington is still faster.

Or do what I do and use the unclassified road through Sadberge to join the A1(M) at J60

It is such that this road is under specified at S2. It needed to be D2 with free flow onto the A1(M); in which case it would likely be a motorway.
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by KeithW » Tue Apr 13, 2021 13:34

Mark Hewitt wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:49

Yes. If you're coming from Teeside the only way to get to the A1(M) North is to trek through the centre of Darlington or to go around via the Tees flyover and to the A689 which is that congested that going through Darlington is still faster.

Or do what I do and use the unclassified road through Sadberge to join the A1(M) at J60

It is such that this road is under specified at S2. It needed to be D2 with free flow onto the A1(M); in which case it would likely be a motorway.
Agreed and they should have at least dualled the A66 between the A66(M) and the Sadberge Roundabout. That said I doubt the money was available, Ben Houchen has his contacts in the treasury and knew what he could get away with.

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by JammyDodge » Tue Apr 13, 2021 14:38

jackal wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:59
There are numerous rejected options for the motorway junction in the slides. Plugging into the existing roundabout was rejected for traffic reasons (correctly so in my view), expanding it to the south east or adding a smaller roundabout was rejected for environmental reasons.

https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content ... slides.pdf
I find the brown option for the junction with the A1(M) interesting to say the least
Capture.JPG
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by JohnnyMo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 15:51

Mark Hewitt wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:49
JohnnyMo wrote:Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
Yes. If you're coming from Teeside the only way to get to the A1(M) North is to trek through the centre of Darlington or to go around via the Tees flyover and to the A689 which is that congested that going through Darlington is still faster.

Or do what I do and use the unclassified road through Sadberge to join the A1(M) at J60

It is such that this road is under specified at S2. It needed to be D2 with free flow onto the A1(M); in which case it would likely be a motorway.
You also have the A177 from Stockton, in which case would it not be better to fix the congestion on the A19/A689.
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by KeithW » Tue Apr 13, 2021 16:01

JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 15:51
Mark Hewitt wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:49
JohnnyMo wrote:Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
Yes. If you're coming from Teeside the only way to get to the A1(M) North is to trek through the centre of Darlington or to go around via the Tees flyover and to the A689 which is that congested that going through Darlington is still faster.

Or do what I do and use the unclassified road through Sadberge to join the A1(M) at J60

It is such that this road is under specified at S2. It needed to be D2 with free flow onto the A1(M); in which case it would likely be a motorway.
You also have the A177 from Stockton, in which case would it not be better to fix the congestion on the A19/A689.
The A19 from the Tees Viaduct to the A689 is being widened right now.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... ted-early/

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by AycliffeChris » Tue Apr 13, 2021 17:43

JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:18
Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
Yes. I’m a local, I work just off of the A1150 so I see daily the reasonings behind building the new road. The main problem is the A1150/A167 roundabout in the northern suburbs of Darlington. It is a tiny roundabout that cannot cope with peak-time traffic flows. There are often queues of 20-30 minutes, especially in the evening. The A1150 is barely more than a residential main road but it has primary status and is heavily used by Teesport-bound lorries.

This then has a knock on effect in the local area. The unclassified country lanes to the north of Darlington are often used as rat runs, especially in the peaks by traffic escaping this congestion. I live in Newton Aycliffe and it’s often quicker to exit the A66 at Sadberge and use the country lanes to the Gretna Green pub on the A167 then it is to stick to the main A167/A1150/A66 route.

The new road would provide many benefits - it would give a faster link to Teesside for all the lorries currently using the A1150, it would improve the quality of living for residents that live near it, and it would provide towns just outside Darlington such as Newton Aycliffe with a faster route to Teesside. I do agree though that a single carriageway is not enough, especially if the planned Skerningham housing development goes ahead, which will add thousands of houses to the north of Darlington, right where this new road is planned!

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by JohnnyMo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 20:26

AycliffeChris wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 17:43
JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:18
Is there really demand for such a link? No doubt a nice to have.
Yes. I’m a local, I work just off of the A1150 so I see daily the reasonings behind building the new road. The main problem is the A1150/A167 roundabout in the northern suburbs of Darlington. It is a tiny roundabout that cannot cope with peak-time traffic flows. There are often queues of 20-30 minutes, especially in the evening. The A1150 is barely more than a residential main road but it has primary status and is heavily used by Teesport-bound lorries.
...
If the main problem is the A1150/A167 roundabout, and I can see how it could easily be as I suspect very little traffic will head north on the A167 then east along the A1150. The a set of traffic lights on or near that roundabout should solve the issue. I am not disputing it is a nice to have taking lorries of residential roads.
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by jabbaboy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 23:59

Wonder if the B6444 will be renumbered as part of it. If they did you've effectively built a East - West Bypass with the same road. The B6444 is high enough standard to carry the extra traffic which is mostly a high quality S2 and S2+1 for part of it carrying fresh air most of the time especially at the Heighington end.

About time though, it's badly needed especially since they've built the Amazon Distribution Centre on the outskirts and there's no way of getting North (without using rat runs). Also be handy for heading to Northallerton as currently there's no way of getting there without going through the centre of Darlington from the North.

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by jervi » Wed Apr 14, 2021 01:41

JammyDodge wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 14:38
jackal wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:59
There are numerous rejected options for the motorway junction in the slides. Plugging into the existing roundabout was rejected for traffic reasons (correctly so in my view), expanding it to the south east or adding a smaller roundabout was rejected for environmental reasons.

https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content ... slides.pdf
I find the brown option for the junction with the A1(M) interesting to say the least
Capture.JPG
Brown option does make sense. It will allow quicker full access from both junctions. However maybe it would be better for the full access to be using the new junction with the older junction dependant on the new one for full access instead of the other way around.
It would be kinda similar to A24 GJS on the Western side of Horsham -> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.06525 ... a=!3m1!1e3
However I'd expect it to be more expensive since there would ultimately have to be 2 new 2 lane slip roads going across the railway.

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by jackal » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:52

jervi wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 01:41
JammyDodge wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 14:38
jackal wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:59
There are numerous rejected options for the motorway junction in the slides. Plugging into the existing roundabout was rejected for traffic reasons (correctly so in my view), expanding it to the south east or adding a smaller roundabout was rejected for environmental reasons.

https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content ... slides.pdf
I find the brown option for the junction with the A1(M) interesting to say the least
Capture.JPG
Brown option does make sense. It will allow quicker full access from both junctions. However maybe it would be better for the full access to be using the new junction with the older junction dependant on the new one for full access instead of the other way around.
It would be kinda similar to A24 GJS on the Western side of Horsham -> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.06525 ... a=!3m1!1e3
However I'd expect it to be more expensive since there would ultimately have to be 2 new 2 lane slip roads going across the railway.
I personally think Brown is total crap as it unnecessarily mixes up A59 traffic and northern link traffic. It compares very unfavourably to Purple (see OP), which separates J59 traffic from northern link traffic.

The A24 example is a good design as it has the slips connecting to the A24 between the junctions, i.e., it achieves the same separation of traffic as Purple. As Brown has no access to/from the mainline between the junctions it's more similar to this on the A470 and this on the A47.

Basically more slips is better because it removes conflicts between traffic that has no business being in the same place. Unfortunately we're not very good at this in the UK. Whereas Canada routinely uses six ramps for a single junction we seem to think four slips shared by two junctions is a good idea :roll:

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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by JammyDodge » Wed Apr 14, 2021 16:02

jackal wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:52
I personally think Brown is total crap as it unnecessarily mixes up A59 traffic and northern link traffic. It compares very unfavourably to Purple (see OP), which separates J59 traffic from northern link traffic.

The A24 example is a good design as it has the slips connecting to the A24 between the junctions, i.e., it achieves the same separation of traffic as Purple. As Brown has no access to/from the mainline between the junctions it's more similar to this on the A470 and this on the A47.

Basically more slips is better because it removes conflicts between traffic that has no business being in the same place. Unfortunately we're not very good at this in the UK. Whereas Canada routinely uses six ramps for a single junction we seem to think four slips shared by two junctions is a good idea :roll:
The brown option says that there would be no change to J59, just adding in connector roads. My assumption is this would be done by having the connector and slip roads diverge, similar to the A24/A264/A281 junction at Horsham. The best way to implement would be for the merge/diverge onto/off of the A1(M) to be at passing of the rail line, instead of the the south, giving more space for lane change while approaching J59 from the north
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Re: Darlington Northern Link Road

Post by jackal » Wed Apr 14, 2021 16:43

The plan doesn't seem compatible with a Horsham style layout.

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