Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

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RJDG14
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Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by RJDG14 »

I've noticed that on the 1967 OS One Inch map on SABRE Maps that the roundabout at J4 of the M6 with the A446 was there, complete with its bridges, yet the motorway/sliproads weren't and there was no indication on the map that this section of the M6 was under construction at the time either. Other more detailed OS maps on Old Maps show the same (https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/419962 ... /10/101325). This makes me ask whether this was some kind of error on the map, or if the A446 really did cross a roundabout with no other links for a few years? If this was the case, are there any photos of how the junction looked for this several year period before work began on the M6?
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by Truvelo »

I can't give a definitive answer but the most likely explanation is the A446 was dualled a few years before the M6 was built. When the A446 was dualled it was known the M6 would be built a few years later so building the roundabout and bridges at the time would save a lot of disruption later on.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by Big L »

Make poetry history.

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From the SABRE Wiki: SABRE Maps :


SABRE Maps, the Discover section of the SABRE website, is a major project undertaken by SABRE to display out-of-copyright road mapping of Great Britain and Ireland, mostly concentrating on Ordnance Survey, Ordnance Survey Ireland and Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland mapping. It is supported (though not financially) by external organisations such as the British Library, the National Library of Scotland and Cambridge University Library; as well as by the private

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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by RJDG14 »

Truvelo wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:28 I can't give a definitive answer but the most likely explanation is the A446 was dualled a few years before the M6 was built. When the A446 was dualled it was known the M6 would be built a few years later so building the roundabout and bridges at the time would save a lot of disruption later on.
That would probably have made sense - it's almost the opposite of when a motorway has been built with a temporary terminus that would be completely rebuilt just a few years later (such as the southern end of the Preston Bypass, which was originally an at-grade roundabout and was grade separated only when the road was extended south. Are there any other motorway junctions, excluding temporary termini for an already part-built road, which were built several years before the motorway was?
Last edited by RJDG14 on Sat May 08, 2021 12:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by RJDG14 »

Yeah, I mentioned SABRE Maps; I just didn't know how to link to it.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by Big L »

RJDG14 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:42
Yeah, I mentioned SABRE Maps; I just didn't know how to link to it.
Unless you're using IE, there is a helpful button marked "create map link". It doesn't work in IE.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by RJDG14 »

Big L wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44
RJDG14 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:42
Yeah, I mentioned SABRE Maps; I just didn't know how to link to it.
Unless you're using IE, there is a helpful button marked "create map link". It doesn't work in IE.
It should work in Chrome, which I use. Thanks for mentioning.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by wrinkly »

"Advance bridgeworks" contracts for major motorway schemes were not unusual. For example they made it possible, once the main contract started, to quickly create an earthmoving route clear of traffic routes. However it's unusual for the updating of a map to fall so neatly between the completion of an advance contract and the start of main works.

In this case the A446 was one of the main routes being used by traffic between the M1 and M6, so it would be good to make sure it was clear of construction traffic,
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by KeithW »

I took a look at the section on the M6 in the Motorway Achievement Book 3 - Building the Network.

It seems that there was a lot of work done in terms of surveying and securing the route several years before construction started on the road proper with particular regard to junctions. A lot of this involved ensuring that any services such as gas, electricity and water mains were diverted before the motorway building gangs moved in so it would not surprise me in the slightest if the area had been secured and the basic roundabout built before the carriageway construction started.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by RJDG14 »

KeithW wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 13:07 I took a look at the section on the M6 in the Motorway Achievement Book 3 - Building the Network.

It seems that there was a lot of work done in terms of surveying and securing the route several years before construction started on the road proper with particular regard to junctions. A lot of this involved ensuring that any services such as gas, electricity and water mains were diverted before the motorway building gangs moved in so it would not surprise me in the slightest if the area had been secured and the basic roundabout built before the carriageway construction started.
It looks like the M6/M1 junction was also built prior to the M6's construction.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by PhilC »

I can confirm that the roundabout existed for several years before the M6 was built. I can remember it in the late 1960s and alway thought it odd that there was a roundabout connecting to nothing.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by B1040 »

RJDG14 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:42 Are there any other motorway junctions, excluding temporary termini for an already part-built road, which were built several years before the motorway was?
Not motorway, but the A12 Stanway bypass ended at an incomplete junction.
I'm sure there must be lots of others that I've seen in map quizzes on this very website, but can't call to mind.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by KeithW »

B1040 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 15:27
RJDG14 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:42 Are there any other motorway junctions, excluding temporary termini for an already part-built road, which were built several years before the motorway was?
Not motorway, but the A12 Stanway bypass ended at an incomplete junction.
I'm sure there must be lots of others that I've seen in map quizzes on this very website, but can't call to mind.
So did the M1 at Leeds
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by wrinkly »

Lofthouse Interchange (M1/M62) was structurally complete before the M62 got near. The wiki page on the interchange begins
The junction originally opened (partially) in 1968, before the M62 had been built.
giving the impression the roundabout was open, but I think that is a misinterpretaion or over-interpretation of the 1" map extract, which shows the roundabout in white.

From the SABRE Wiki: Lofthouse Interchange :


Lofthouse Interchange connects the M1 (Junction 42) with the M62 (Junction 29).

The junction originally opened (partially) in 1968, before the M62 had been built. Much like the terminus of the M180 at the A15 in 1981, there was no traffic flowing east-west under the roundabout. It fully opened in 1970 as a standard three-level roundabout when the Gildersome-Lofthouse section of M62 opened in December 1970. Much of the M62 in West Yorkshire

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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by RJDG14 »

PhilC wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 14:18 I can confirm that the roundabout existed for several years before the M6 was built. I can remember it in the late 1960s and alway thought it odd that there was a roundabout connecting to nothing.
Did it have any road signs at the time, and if so, do you recall what they read? It's possible that it may have been the same sign to after the M6 was opened, but with references to the M6 patched out. Also, was there a short stretch of unopened M6 carriageway underneath it at the time, or was it just grass?


I've read the article on the Lofthouse Interchange and it also mentioned that the M180/A15 junction was built prior to that section of the M180.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by OLD GIT »

Thought I could help, but my old 1955 AA book does not even show the M6.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by Ross Spur »

Truvelo wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:28 I can't give a definitive answer but the most likely explanation is the A446 was dualled a few years before the M6 was built. When the A446 was dualled it was known the M6 would be built a few years later so building the roundabout and bridges at the time would save a lot of disruption later on.
That was the case. There were some reports in the Coleshill Chronicle. The roundabout was completed before 15 April 1966 when the paper reported a court case for an accident on the roundabout. The car skidded to the right, then the left and went down the incline on the side of the carriageway. The roundabout was described as having been built in readiness to take the Coleshill to Stonebridge road over the proposed motorway extension.

It was built as part of the £570,746 contract issued in August 1964 for adding a second carriageway between the A452 at Denbigh Corner to the dual carriageway at the Coleshill Bypass. The existing carriageway was mostly 30 feet wide and a second carriageway of 24 feet was to be added for about 2.25 miles. The roundabout at Denbigh Corner was to be replaced by a two-level junction.

The scheme was an extension of the work in hand between Stonebridge and Denbigh Junction and was to complete the construction of dual carriageways between the M45 Dunchurch Spur and the projected Midlands Link Motorway extension of the M6 from Dunston to Coleshill which was due to be built under the current motorway programme. Part of the future motorway junction with the Coleshill to Stonebridge road was to be built to facilitate motorway construction later, to avoid work on the trunk road which would become obsolete in a comparatively short time and to avoid traffic disruption when the motorway was built.

It kind of hints that the Dunston to Coleshill section of M6 was to be built before that of Coleshill to M1.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by wrinkly »

RJDG14 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 16:31 Also, was there a short stretch of unopened M6 carriageway underneath it at the time, or was it just grass?
I'm sure none of the M6 carriageways would have been built. It would have been much simpler to leave them until the rest was built. Nothing of them is shown on either the 1" or large scale maps.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by RJDG14 »

One relatively recent junction which has too my knowledge been left unfinished would be the new M49 junction, which certainly went nowhere at the time it was finished.
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Re: Was the roundabout at J4 of the M6 built several years before the motorway was?

Post by PhilC »

RJDG14 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 16:31
PhilC wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 14:18 I can confirm that the roundabout existed for several years before the M6 was built. I can remember it in the late 1960s and alway thought it odd that there was a roundabout connecting to nothing.
Did it have any road signs at the time, and if so, do you recall what they read? It's possible that it may have been the same sign to after the M6 was opened, but with references to the M6 patched out. Also, was there a short stretch of unopened M6 carriageway underneath it at the time, or was it just grass?


I've read the article on the Lofthouse Interchange and it also mentioned that the M180/A15 junction was built prior to that section of the M180.
All I can remember were the roundabout warning signs with "Reduce Speed Now" panels, and chevrons on the roundabout itself. I can't recall there being any direction signs.
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