Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

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Glenn A
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Glenn A »

As has been pointed out, the notorious A1 Darrington- Red House is a prime candidate as it is a very outdated and dangerous section of D2 and maybe the 60 year old Doncaster by pass could be replaced by a completely new D3M. Otherwise I think it's game over, as the green lobby and anti roads local authorities are too powerful.
Thankfully, in the last 20 years, some gaps have been closed with the M6 Cumberland Gap, the A1 in North Yorkshire becoming completely D3M and the M77 being extended to Kilmarnock, and also the M74 Glasgow southern by pass has linked the M8 with the M74.
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JackieRoads
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by JackieRoads »

jgharston wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 14:02
JackieRoads wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:43 Is it possible that when the A1(M) up to Newcastle is completed, will the M1 be extended north of Hook Moor and the rest the M10, as well ending on Scratchwood if possible? I'd just prefer the roundabout to have the services and the M10.
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Hahaha, no.

The literal last time a piece of motorway was built goes to the A1(M), literally I seriously need to see a M1 extension :D
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Glenn A »

I think we've reached endgame with new motorway building now. I think future road projects will concentrate on by passing bottlenecks on the road network and dualling busy sections of S2 roads. Also could homeworking, teleconferencing and Microsoft Teams reduce a considerable amount of road traffic. I know even before the pandemic, at work, teleconferencing had become the norm and travel between offices had been massively reduced since the noughties.
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by KeithW »

JackieRoads wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 18:04
Hahaha, no.

The literal last time a piece of motorway was built goes to the A1(M), literally I seriously need to see a M1 extension :D
And there wont be one unless someone goes seriously loopy and decides to extend it York and Scarborough :)
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Glenn A »

KeithW wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 19:01
JackieRoads wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 18:04
Hahaha, no.

The literal last time a piece of motorway was built goes to the A1(M), literally I seriously need to see a M1 extension :D
And there wont be one unless someone goes seriously loopy and decides to extend it York and Scarborough :)
Unless it's renamed the M64.
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KeithW
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 18:43 I think we've reached endgame with new motorway building now. I think future road projects will concentrate on by passing bottlenecks on the road network and dualling busy sections of S2 roads. Also could homeworking, teleconferencing and Microsoft Teams reduce a considerable amount of road traffic. I know even before the pandemic, at work, teleconferencing had become the norm and travel between offices had been massively reduced since the noughties.
I think there are some possibilities but I agree in the near term its more likely that roads development is more likely to be improvements of existing routes. Teleconferencing doesnt obviate the need for safety based improvements on busy A roads such as the A16 and A64.
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JackieRoads
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by JackieRoads »

Isn't the M64, a proposed number for the Long-Whatton - Stoke motorway?
Glenn A wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 19:06
KeithW wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 19:01
JackieRoads wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 18:04
Hahaha, no.

The literal last time a piece of motorway was built goes to the A1(M), literally I seriously need to see a M1 extension :D
And there wont be one unless someone goes seriously loopy and decides to extend it York and Scarborough :)
Unless it's renamed the M64.
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Vierwielen
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Vierwielen »

The Lower Thames Crossing might be an "A" road, but it is likely that there will e huge restrictions as to what traffic may use the tunnel. I suspect that we will see something like this for the sector that contains the tunnel.
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Herned »

Vierwielen wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 21:56 The Lower Thames Crossing might be an "A" road, but it is likely that there will e huge restrictions as to what traffic may use the tunnel. I suspect that we will see something like this for the sector that contains the tunnel.
Yes, absolutely it will. It will de facto be a motorway, which shows what a nonsense the whole thing is. What possible justification is there for building a road connecting (almost) two motorways and not calling it what it really is?
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Truvelo »

Herned wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:18 Yes, absolutely it will. It will de facto be a motorway, which shows what a nonsense the whole thing is. What possible justification is there for building a road connecting (almost) two motorways and not calling it what it really is?
Calling it a motorway will increase the likelihood of it falling at the first hurdle due to environmentalists. An A road is seen as a lesser threat to the greenie brigade so is likely to get through a public inquiry with less hassle.
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Herned »

Truvelo wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:29 Calling it a motorway will increase the likelihood of it falling at the first hurdle due to environmentalists. An A road is seen as a lesser threat to the greenie brigade so is likely to get through a public inquiry with less hassle.
I have often seen that claimed, but I don't see how it can be true, especially as there aren't public enquiries any more. There is no difference in the scope for objecting just because a road is a motorway. Stonehenge made it through the process, which must have had many more objections than a route through some nondescript parts of the Thames Estuary
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Osthagen »

JackieRoads wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 18:04 The literal last time a piece of motorway was built goes to the A1(M), literally I seriously need to see a M1 extension :D
Are you meaning 'extension' in terms of constructing new lengths of road under the 'M1' designation, or simply reclassifying lengths of adjoining routes as 'M1'?

As for the latter, there's an outside chance of the A1(M) north of Aberford being absorbed into the route, but with support outside of enthusiast groups such as this amounting to little more than "it might be a good idea", I would not hold your breath about it happening anytime soon.

For the former, if Britain had been France, Italy or Germany, the M1 would have reached Edinburgh perhaps before I was born. By this time 32 years ago, the Italian autostrada network already straddled terrain more treacherous than nigh on anything you'll find in Britain.
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by A72 »

Osthagen wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 00:17...the fact is that government policy makers in this day and age are essentially feudal serfs to the 'green' lobby, who'd delightedly have Britain be a third-world country when it comes to travel.
FTFY. :wink:
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

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A72 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 23:36
Osthagen wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 00:17...the fact is that government policy makers in this day and age are essentially feudal serfs to the 'green' lobby, who'd delightedly have Britain be a third-world country when it comes to travel.
FTFY. :wink:
Quite :D I included the term 'feudal serfs' in my post for a reason!
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by A72 »

Osthagen wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 23:47
A72 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 23:36
Osthagen wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 00:17...the fact is that government policy makers in this day and age are essentially feudal serfs to the 'green' lobby, who'd delightedly have Britain be a third-world country when it comes to travel.
FTFY. :wink:
Quite :D I included the term 'feudal serfs' in my post for a reason!
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Patrick Harper »

Truvelo wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:29
Herned wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:18 Yes, absolutely it will. It will de facto be a motorway, which shows what a nonsense the whole thing is. What possible justification is there for building a road connecting (almost) two motorways and not calling it what it really is?
Calling it a motorway will increase the likelihood of it falling at the first hurdle due to environmentalists. An A road is seen as a lesser threat to the greenie brigade so is likely to get through a public inquiry with less hassle.
In the age of the Knowsley Expressway...maybe, but I don't think anyone's fooled anymore. If anything, the move is a sign that the government with HE are desperate to get the project through the red tape.
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Bryn666 »

Patrick Harper wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 00:12
Truvelo wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:29
Herned wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:18 Yes, absolutely it will. It will de facto be a motorway, which shows what a nonsense the whole thing is. What possible justification is there for building a road connecting (almost) two motorways and not calling it what it really is?
Calling it a motorway will increase the likelihood of it falling at the first hurdle due to environmentalists. An A road is seen as a lesser threat to the greenie brigade so is likely to get through a public inquiry with less hassle.
In the age of the Knowsley Expressway...maybe, but I don't think anyone's fooled anymore. If anything, the move is a sign that the government with HE are desperate to get the project through the red tape.
It's more that project managers employed by HE don't know what a motorway order is or how you write one.

The DMRB tells you how to construct a road, it doesn't tell you anything about the legal nuances to prohibit traffic from it.

The A556 DCO for example specified that it must be a clearway for its entire length and that it must be 60mph for air quality reasons. Apparently it's easier to follow those bits of the RTRA 1984 than the bit that provides a Special Roads Order.
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Patrick Harper »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:18
Patrick Harper wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 00:12
Truvelo wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:29
Calling it a motorway will increase the likelihood of it falling at the first hurdle due to environmentalists. An A road is seen as a lesser threat to the greenie brigade so is likely to get through a public inquiry with less hassle.
In the age of the Knowsley Expressway...maybe, but I don't think anyone's fooled anymore. If anything, the move is a sign that the government with HE are desperate to get the project through the red tape.
It's more that project managers employed by HE don't know what a motorway order is or how you write one.

The DMRB tells you how to construct a road, it doesn't tell you anything about the legal nuances to prohibit traffic from it.

The A556 DCO for example specified that it must be a clearway for its entire length and that it must be 60mph for air quality reasons. Apparently it's easier to follow those bits of the RTRA 1984 than the bit that provides a Special Roads Order.
Weren't such orders written for the A14 Huntingdon scheme though?
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

Post by Bryn666 »

No, they consulted and wrote a glossy PDF saying they'd do it, but they didn't go through with it because it would have required a variation order to the DCO and could have delayed the scheme delivery by months.
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Re: Do you think we'll ever see new motorways in the UK again?

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Truvelo wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 22:29 Calling it a motorway will increase the likelihood of it falling at the first hurdle due to environmentalists. An A road is seen as a lesser threat to the greenie brigade so is likely to get through a public inquiry with less hassle.
I remember a public meeting in Edinburgh one evening in 1972 when the Buchanan etc proposals for roadbuilding were presented; it was actually given in a university lecture theatre, so we all trooped along. Among the proposals for roadbuilding right through the urban centre, the biggest audience reaction was for the city bypass, near none of their houses, what we now know as the A720. The proposer pointed to it on the map and said it would be "A high speed bypass of the whole city - possibly a Motorway ...", at which word there was a huge "Oooooooh" from the audience.
A72 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 23:52The sooner people wake-up to what the Greens are actually about, the better.
There have long been groups like this who somehow seem to get the government ear as they seem to have nothing better to do. In the 1970s it was ultra-left socialists, particularly at said university. One of these contemporary of mine arch-levellers-down later became Chancellor of the Exchequer !
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