Excessive restrictions

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Skipsy
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Excessive restrictions

Post by Skipsy » Wed Jun 16, 2021 19:35

I made a thread about a ridiculous speed limit change from 40mph to 20mph on the Bushey Road A298.
But now its got me curious about excessive restrictions in general, like what's stopping adding a 7-10am 4-7pm or a 7am-7pm clause here

What are some ridiculously excessive restrictions you have seen, or are even affected by on the roads?

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RichardA35
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by RichardA35 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 19:44

Not all things should be seen through the prism of the motor vehicle.
In an few areas when running with no footway, I have thought that the length of NSL approaching the built up area is excessive and would be better at a lower figure from the bridleway or path concerned (which is only a few hundred yards outside the village boundary) to the 30mph limit through the village.

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jervi
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by jervi » Wed Jun 16, 2021 19:48

In that location I'd assume the banned turns is not just to stop people holding up traffic, but also to make it safer for pedestrians crossing over the side streets. There clearly has been an attempt to provide a continuous footway across the side roads to show that pedestrians do infact have priority, those doing left turns into and out of the side road do not have pressure from other motorists to force their way over the raised footway, however doing right turns there is more pressure to take whatever opportunity you have (since you are holding up traffic), resulting in forcing their way over the raised footway putting pedestrians (and other users of the footway) at risk.

Maybe a timed base restriction would be better, however it just clutters up the signs and make them confusing. I would exempt cycles from the restriction though.

WHBM
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by WHBM » Wed Jun 16, 2021 20:17

Skipsy wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 19:35
What are some ridiculously excessive restrictions you have seen, or are even affected by on the roads?
The whole of the bus lane network on TfL-maintained roads being arbitrarily made 24x7, including ones where there is no 24 hour service.

However the majority of bus lanes in London are on borough-maintained roads, which continue their separate limited hours and which are the majority of such lanes.

qwertyK
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by qwertyK » Wed Jun 16, 2021 22:15

I was about to make a post about what I believe is an excessive, totally unjustified restriction.

The A13 immedieately west of the junction with the M25/A282 in Thurrock, Essex. For some reason, despite it being D3, essentially motorway standard and in a rural area with no buildings alongside the road or anything like that, there are average speed checks with a 50 limit - despite it going up to 70 after and going up to 70 before the introduction of the speed check. What purpose does this even serve?

It's managed by Highways England, not TfL I believe as its outside of Greater London - the 50 limit ends just past the Wennington Interchange

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trickstat
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by trickstat » Wed Jun 16, 2021 23:28

qwertyK wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 22:15
I was about to make a post about what I believe is an excessive, totally unjustified restriction.

The A13 immedieately west of the junction with the M25/A282 in Thurrock, Essex. For some reason, despite it being D3, essentially motorway standard and in a rural area with no buildings alongside the road or anything like that, there are average speed checks with a 50 limit - despite it going up to 70 after and going up to 70 before the introduction of the speed check. What purpose does this even serve?

It's managed by Highways England, not TfL I believe as its outside of Greater London - the 50 limit ends just past the Wennington Interchange
That would be the section that is shaped like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4958123 ... 804,15.25z

That doesn't look suitable for 70 mph to me.

qwertyK
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by qwertyK » Thu Jun 17, 2021 06:37

trickstat wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 23:28
qwertyK wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 22:15
I was about to make a post about what I believe is an excessive, totally unjustified restriction.

The A13 immedieately west of the junction with the M25/A282 in Thurrock, Essex. For some reason, despite it being D3, essentially motorway standard and in a rural area with no buildings alongside the road or anything like that, there are average speed checks with a 50 limit - despite it going up to 70 after and going up to 70 before the introduction of the speed check. What purpose does this even serve?

It's managed by Highways England, not TfL I believe as its outside of Greater London - the 50 limit ends just past the Wennington Interchange
That would be the section that is shaped like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4958123 ... 804,15.25z

That doesn't look suitable for 70 mph to me.
Clearly it was once deemed suitable at one point, it’s a relatively new thing tho I’ll admit I never thought about it because of the shape of the road. It’s not really that tight though. Even then, why not say 60mph?

The Ingatestone Bypass on the nearby A12 is the section that really ought to be 50mph, especially considering someone was killed on that section not that long ago because of the road having such a tight bend. It’s crazy to think how a replacement for this section, which dates back to the fifties, has yet to be built.

https://goo.gl/maps/e1UxkWKUpQAh5cQ18

KeithW
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by KeithW » Thu Jun 17, 2021 08:33

qwertyK wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 06:37
Clearly it was once deemed suitable at one point, it’s a relatively new thing tho I’ll admit I never thought about it because of the shape of the road. It’s not really that tight though. Even then, why not say 60mph?

The Ingatestone Bypass on the nearby A12 is the section that really ought to be 50mph, especially considering someone was killed on that section not that long ago because of the road having such a tight bend. It’s crazy to think how a replacement for this section, which dates back to the fclutter ifties, has yet to be built.

https://goo.gl/maps/e1UxkWKUpQAh5cQ18
Well you are approaching the rather busy junction with the M25/A282 with the added clutter of the Lakeside Shopping Centre and Thurrock Services. Throw in the lane drop on the A13 and I am not surprised that a 60 mph limit has been imposed. The mess here is a classic example of what happens when unrestricted commercial development is allowed at a major strategic junction.

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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by Herned » Thu Jun 17, 2021 09:01

trickstat wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 23:28
That doesn't look suitable for 70 mph to me.
It was when it opened, and for at least the first 15 years it was open. I would imagine it is because of traffic queueing for the M25 rather than the geometry of the road

qwertyK
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by qwertyK » Thu Jun 17, 2021 09:44

Herned wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 09:01
trickstat wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 23:28
That doesn't look suitable for 70 mph to me.
It was when it opened, and for at least the first 15 years it was open. I would imagine it is because of traffic queueing for the M25 rather than the geometry of the road
It’s In the London bound direction too.
only things I can think of is that the area suffers from the highest levels of pollution in England and elsewhere in esssex they’ve introduced 50mph on the A127 in Basildon for similar reasons

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Barkstar
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by Barkstar » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:16

Skipsy wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 19:35
I made a thread about a ridiculous speed limit change from 40mph to 20mph on the Bushey Road A298.
But now its got me curious about excessive restrictions in general, like what's stopping adding a 7-10am 4-7pm or a 7am-7pm clause here

What are some ridiculously excessive restrictions you have seen, or are even affected by on the roads?
I believe in some cases the no right turn restrictions can be a nice little earner for the local authority. Make finding your way into those back streets really complicated and the confused/annoyed/unwary will just make the turn for a lack of an obvious alternative and kerching!

fras
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by fras » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:02

The new section of the A555 - 50 mph on a high quality dual carriageway.

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Bryn666
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by Bryn666 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:07

fras wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:02
The new section of the A555 - 50 mph on a high quality dual carriageway.
It's not high quality though is it? It lacks hard strips, has undulating dips in several places, and every junction is at grade signalised.

It's still NSL on the bit that is actually high quality, the original bit.
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fras
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by fras » Thu Jun 17, 2021 13:27

Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:07
fras wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:02
The new section of the A555 - 50 mph on a high quality dual carriageway.
It's not high quality though is it? It lacks hard strips, has undulating dips in several places, and every junction is at grade signalised.

It's still NSL on the bit that is actually high quality, the original bit.
I suppose it's a wee bit bendy, and yes, there are at-grade signalised junctions, but what would the wrong with 60 mph ? As for quality, it seems well built. The only bit I don't like is at the Manchester Airport end where there are some most peculiar road markings that must, by now have caused a few low-speed collisions.

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Bryn666
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by Bryn666 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 13:30

fras wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 13:27
Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:07
fras wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:02
The new section of the A555 - 50 mph on a high quality dual carriageway.
It's not high quality though is it? It lacks hard strips, has undulating dips in several places, and every junction is at grade signalised.

It's still NSL on the bit that is actually high quality, the original bit.
I suppose it's a wee bit bendy, and yes, there are at-grade signalised junctions, but what would the wrong with 60 mph ? As for quality, it seems well built. The only bit I don't like is at the Manchester Airport end where there are some most peculiar road markings that must, by now have caused a few low-speed collisions.
I don't disagree regarding 60 - but I've been an advocate for reducing the speed limit on non-expressway dual carriageways to 60 for years - whereas I'd raise the limit on expressways and motorways to 75 to reflect their 120km/h design speed. This would require us to introduce the expressway (European style car sign) classification though.
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by aj444 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 18:11

WHBM wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 20:17
The whole of the bus lane network on TfL-maintained roads being arbitrarily made 24x7, including ones where there is no 24 hour service.
I wonder just how many drivers are inconvenienced by the bus lane being 24/7 at 2am when there is little traffic of any description about?

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Bryn666
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by Bryn666 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 18:15

aj444 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 18:11
WHBM wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 20:17
The whole of the bus lane network on TfL-maintained roads being arbitrarily made 24x7, including ones where there is no 24 hour service.
I wonder just how many drivers are inconvenienced by the bus lane being 24/7 at 2am when there is little traffic of any description about?
Equally, how many cyclists and taxis benefit from having a reserve lane all the time? What's the saying... when you're privileged equality feels like oppression?
Bryn
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fras
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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by fras » Thu Jun 17, 2021 19:37

Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 18:15
aj444 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 18:11
WHBM wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 20:17
The whole of the bus lane network on TfL-maintained roads being arbitrarily made 24x7, including ones where there is no 24 hour service.
I wonder just how many drivers are inconvenienced by the bus lane being 24/7 at 2am when there is little traffic of any description about?
Equally, how many cyclists and taxis benefit from having a reserve lane all the time? What's the saying... when you're privileged equality feels like oppression?
But surely road space provision should match the traffic classes ? Making 15% for cyclist when cycling traffic is less than 10% is wrong in my very humble opinion. And whilst we're at it, when are we going to enforce use of expensively provided cycling lanes. Just thinking....

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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by Piatkow » Thu Jun 17, 2021 19:46

aj444 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 18:11
WHBM wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 20:17
The whole of the bus lane network on TfL-maintained roads being arbitrarily made 24x7, including ones where there is no 24 hour service.
I wonder just how many drivers are inconvenienced by the bus lane being 24/7 at 2am when there is little traffic of any description about?
Not 2AM but I have seen lorries delivering to shops at midnight in London. Also many bus lanes have parking allowed when not in use.

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Re: Excessive restrictions

Post by Herned » Thu Jun 17, 2021 20:01

fras wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 19:37
But surely road space provision should match the traffic classes ? Making 15% for cyclist when cycling traffic is less than 10% is wrong in my very humble opinion. And whilst we're at it, when are we going to enforce use of expensively provided cycling lanes. Just thinking....
Yes, good idea. Cycling probably has dedicated use of 0.05% of the road network nationwide, so let's get it to 5% as a sensible mid-term goal

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