Leicester Eastern Bypass

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Bryn666
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:26

Yeah, the truth is out now in that prospectus. They want another spine road to plonk loads of car-dependent box development along and are dressing it up as a strategic corridor.

Are we going to ever actually move towards sustainable development in this country? As I say all the time, this plays right into the 'all new roads = BAD" mob.
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by darkcape » Tue Oct 24, 2017 17:50

If the road is D2 with GSJ's would it be that bad as allowing further development?
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by owen b » Tue Oct 24, 2017 19:12

Bryn666 wrote:Yeah, the truth is out now in that prospectus. They want another spine road to plonk loads of car-dependent box development along and are dressing it up as a strategic corridor.

Are we going to ever actually move towards sustainable development in this country? As I say all the time, this plays right into the 'all new roads = BAD" mob.
That's how I see it. This does very little for long distance through traffic on the major routes. But over 4,000 ha of development land around the Leicester urban area, that's over 40 square km, so more or less the entire area of Luton Borough Council (2011 population 216,800k, area 43.35 square km) :o . Plus further unspecified land for development in Leicestershire and Warwickshire.

I'm not necessarily against development, and it may well be that the Leicester area is as good a place for it as any. But this road will struggle to serve the additional development let alone relieve the existing network.
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by Berk » Tue Oct 24, 2017 19:20

Fine. Let’s not build any roads then, because ‘they might be used for development routes’. :thumbsdown:

You could easily say the same about the A563 - have you actually even tried driving along that, especially at rush hour?? You’d be lucky to do 50mph, hell, you’d be lucky to do 30 at times. And so much of that traffic isn’t even for Leicester itself. How on earth are you supposed to get to the motorways, use the A14?? :ipunch:

Perhaps I should point out the Leicester area doesn’t have that many D2’s. It’s quite lucky to actually have a (fully-completed) D2 inner ring road. Which moves, sometimes. Usually about 10 at night. If there’s no football. Yes, I even found it hard to get home after finishing my evening shift, quite a few times actually.

There is no denying this road is badly needed. Whether it’s seen as locally, regionally or nationally important.

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by Berk » Tue Oct 24, 2017 19:26

owen b wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:Yeah, the truth is out now in that prospectus. They want another spine road to plonk loads of car-dependent box development along and are dressing it up as a strategic corridor.

Are we going to ever actually move towards sustainable development in this country? As I say all the time, this plays right into the 'all new roads = BAD" mob.
That's how I see it. This does very little for long distance through traffic on the major routes. But over 4,000 ha of development land around the Leicester urban area, that's over 40 square km, so more or less the entire area of Luton Borough Council (2011 population 216,800k, area 43.35 square km) :o . Plus further unspecified land for development in Leicestershire and Warwickshire.

I'm not necessarily against development, and it may well be that the Leicester area is as good a place for it as any. But this road will struggle to serve the additional development let alone relieve the existing network.
I should also point out that there’s a lot of land to the east of Leicester -which isn’t developed at all really, apart from farming. Could that be due to the lack of decent roads in the area?? Just a thought.

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by M19 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 21:40

A development route becomes obvious for what it is because it's usually a massively underengineered route with multiple at grade junctions that developers will be expected to pay for. Because of it's intended function, traffic modelling will be skewed towards the traffic generated by development, ignoring the reality of the route being used as a pseudo-bypass. A perfect recipe for creating designer congestion schemes that will cost more to fix than the price of building the road correctly in the first place. However, the cost of subsequent upgrading will inevitably lead to nothing being done, except a few sticking plaster junction "improvements" to pacify some.

You can't fool people when you build something on the cheap because you're able to scrape together meagre sums from developers to pay for it.

If an eastern bypass is likely to attract development, it needs to be factored in and managed into the capacity and crucially junction designs.

And please, don't make a classic bodge of J20a. Free flow and no less. Not a stupid, dumbbell, dogbone or roundabout, which would no doubt be designed to be entry path overlap specials with a services tagged on it to completely knacker things up for good measure. Think of how well Birchanger Green traps people who dared stopped for a loo break, who spend a good 45 minutes trying to get out.

You'd think we would learn from experience to get things right first time, but it's depressing when designs are obviously set to fail, but somehow get justified with dodgy traffic modelling, then fail as expected. I hope I'm wrong, but my frustration tells me otherwise.
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by SteveA30 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 08:02

No, you are correct, unfortunately.
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by danfw194 » Sun May 27, 2018 12:38

Hello all, long time reader, first time contributor. Thought I'd start somewhere very familiar to me, as a resident of Syston and daily user of the 'Hobby Horse Island'.....

I'm completely on board with the desire to relieve the pressure on the current A46 Leicester Western Bypass. On a weekday morning, traffic heading westbound on the A46 is backed up all the way to the Hobby Horse Island (luckily for me I travel from A607 to A46 Newark-bound).

However, I can't see how this initial idea is feasible, unless they are willing to bulldoze hundreds of houses in Syston, or bulldoze the village of Barkby. There is no way you can thread a D2 expressway through to the Hobby Horse Island without flattening something. Going north of Syston and Queniborough to link to the existing A46 would be a struggle too, because that stretch of A46 is sub-standard and not fully GS'ed.

For me, I'd look at making some straight-forward improvements to the existing A46. Firstly, upgrade it from D2 to D3 from the M1 right upto Syston - there is enough room for this. And in the process, get rid of the Hobby Horse Island (see attached). The A46 turns a right-angle here, but even still it needs to be treated as the priority route and be fully free-flowing. With my idea, this is where the D3 would start and finish, the respective slip roads for the A607 adding/losing the third lane. Personally, I think this would make a world of difference. The Martin Drive spur to the Hobby Horse Island would be removed, and replaced by a slip-road onto Wanlip lane, where there are already existing access points to the A607 in both directions.
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Hobby Horse Island.jpg

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by jackal » Sun May 27, 2018 16:06

Welcome to sabre!

I'm not sure freeflow on the A607 would really be necessary and it would pose weaving issues. As A46eb>nb freeflow is already provided, the simplest thing would be to add a flyover for A46sb>wb over the roundabout.

As for the eastern bypass, it could either go north of Syston or slip through the playing fields next to Roundhill Academy on Melton Road, with a small amount of demolition.

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by danfw194 » Sun May 27, 2018 19:10

jackal wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 16:06
Welcome to sabre!

I'm not sure freeflow on the A607 would really be necessary and it would pose weaving issues. As A46eb>nb freeflow is already provided, the simplest thing would be to add a flyover for A46sb>wb over the roundabout.

As for the eastern bypass, it could either go north of Syston or slip through the playing fields next to Roundhill Academy on Melton Road, with a small amount of demolition.
I see where you're coming from, but I hate it when they just bolt bits onto already failing junctions to try and improve things. A bit like Junction 24 of the M1, when they put that A50-to-A453 cut through on the roundabout, a sticking plaster solution that is now already on it's way out.
I just think that not only is the Hobby Horse Island a bottleneck, but it's actually dangerous. Especially A46 Sb>Wb where the change lane sign is stupidly late, meaning HGV's have to dive across to the fast lane at the last second. And during busy periods, you really struggle to get onto the roundabout safely from Martin Drive.

Yes you could thread the new expressway 'round the houses' so to speak, but I would have grave concerns about what kind of junction they'd create for it's terminus. As is so often the case, lovely new roads can be created, but planners rarely bother to think about the start and finish points. A great example being the A46 between Widmerpool and Newark - a fantastic new GS'ed D2 but absolutely zero improvement or capacity increase for the Newark bypass.

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by jackal » Thu Feb 07, 2019 16:50

The A46 Corridor Study was published in November, but passed me by. It includes an 'illustrative package of improvements', which 'represented the maximum likely level of investment in the corridor':
 offline bypasses of Ashchurch, Beckford and Evesham and other improvements to provide a high
quality dual carriageway standard between the M5 and M40;
 junction improvements at Thickthorn, Stivichall and M6 J2;
 a new Leicester Eastern/Southern Bypass, including a link from M69 J2 and a new M1 J20A;
 junction improvements between the A1 and Lincoln to provide grade separation;
 a southern bypass of Lincoln, connecting to the under construction eastern bypass; and
 targeted improvements on the A15 north of Lincoln.

These components would be delivered in a phased programme over approximately 20 years (for the
purposes of the appraisal scheme opening years are assumed to be 2031 to emphasise the benefits of an
accelerated delivery programme).
A46 illustrative package - Copy.PNG
https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/media/15 ... r-2018.pdf

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by TheKeymeister » Thu Feb 07, 2019 18:28

If this eastern bypass is designed to take some pressure off A46 traffic, hopefully they can plug it into the current A46/A607 junction somehow, with the big junction there that looks like it's the start of a nice bit of freeflow but then slams straight into a roundabout, it might not be such a waste then :D

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by M19 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:22

It needs to have priority so that it leads on from the M69, crosses the M1 with free flow connectors, then onwards with the A46 joining (not the other way round).

It really does have the potential to become a good cross country route from Wales to Lincoln and should be treated as such. As an expressway it could become the M50, all the way from the M4.
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by Micro The Maniac » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:53

M19 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:22
It needs to have priority so that it leads on from the M69, crosses the M1 with free flow connectors, then onwards with the A46 joining (not the other way round).

It really does have the potential to become a good cross country route from Wales to Lincoln and should be treated as such. As an expressway it could become the M50, all the way from the M4.
How about the new by-pass be an extended M69 (perhaps renumbered M46 although zone purists might complain)?

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by Micro The Maniac » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:55

jackal wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 16:50
...
 a new Leicester Eastern/Southern Bypass, including a link from M69 J2 and a new M1 J20A;
Does that *really* say M69 Junction TWO ?

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by jackal » Sat Feb 09, 2019 14:11

M19 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:22
It needs to have priority so that it leads on from the M69, crosses the M1 with free flow connectors, then onwards with the A46 joining (not the other way round).
Quite agree. It should be easy to freeflow the M1 junction, it will only really need one pair of turning movements (M1S to/from the bypass). But they're very likely to make a pig's ear of it because the council want an MSA and development sites linked to the new junction (J20a). In fact they plan to build the junction first and one fears they'll simply plug the bypass into it, Catthorpe style.

M1 J20A - Copy.PNG
It really does have the potential to become a good cross country route from Wales to Lincoln and should be treated as such. As an expressway it could become the M50, all the way from the M4.
I guess you mean M5! The route shown does not connect to the M50 but stays close to the existing A46. Actually I see no good reason for this, as it reduces the value of the A46 expressway as a bypass of the M42, forcing M50 traffic to/from the East Midlands to continue using the Birmingham box. Furthermore the A46 from Offenham southwards is only S2, so there's no real saving in using this line rather than going offline. I'd take it across country, north of (but not in) the Cotswalds AONB, from the M5/M50 interchange to the roundabout at Offenham where the A46 DC starts (the rbt would be GSJed of course).

As the route would mostly consist of existing D2/D3 A46, without hard shoulders, it is more likely it would be numbered A46 or A46(M), in line with the expressway concept. The southern portion of M69 presumably then becomes A46(M), while the northern portion stays as M69. The existing A46 around Leicester is probably also renumbered as this number is carried on the new bypass.

This is all assuming that the bypass is actually designed as a freeflowing strategic route, rather than a roundabout-festooned development route that HE get tricked into paying for.
Micro The Maniac wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:55
jackal wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 16:50
...
 a new Leicester Eastern/Southern Bypass, including a link from M69 J2 and a new M1 J20A;
Does that *really* say M69 Junction TWO ?
Yes, the description and map disagree about J1 versus J2. J2 may be cheaper, because it requires less new road and a less complex junction. J1 may be better in strategic terms as it could link with the proposed A5 expressway (M1-A38), though I dread to think what the junction would then look like.

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by jackal » Sun Aug 01, 2021 20:41

The A46 phase 2 document rejected the strategic bypass idea:
The assessment of the full bypass demonstrated that trips passing Leicester, experienced a journey up to 36% longer than the A46, and hence this does not at present justify full commitment to long-term strategic alternative to upgrading the A46 corridor purely for strategic movements. Should there be no case for the full bypass to serve a strategic role, then accordingly it could be built to a lower standard (i.e. not as an Expressway).
It nevertheless included some interesting info:

Leicester SE bypass - Copy.JPG
M69 JUNCTION 2 (Hinckley East) -
Freeflow slips from M69 northbound to M69 to M1
link road eastbound, and M69 to M1 link road
westbound to M69 southbound were included within
Option 11 of Phase 2 tasks, alongside a connection
from the link road to the existing M69 J2.

M69 to M1 link (proposed)
Dual carriageway / expressway standard

M1 JUNCTION 21A
Proposed new grade separated junction (potentially
free-flow all movements)

Leicester Southern / Eastern Bypass
(proposed)
WSP preferred option (2/2) (Option 11) includes
expressway standard Leicester Southern / Eastern
Bypass with junctions at M69 J2, M1 J20a, A5199, A6,
A47, A607 and A46 North of Ratcliffe-on-the Wreake.

HOBBY HORSE ROUNDBOUT (A607)
Initial work undertaken as part Phase 1 A46 corridor
study to understand potential tie in of SE Bypass to
the north of Hobby Horse.
I think JUNCTION 21A is a typo for 20A. Even so it doesn't make sense for it to be all movements given eastbound to northbound is much more direct (and freeflow) via M69 and M1 J21.

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by darkcape » Sun Aug 01, 2021 22:59

So, my ear to the ground regarding Leicestershire highways pipeline:

M1 North-west Leicester Access: this placeholder project name seems to be an M1 J21 upgrade currently disguised, no physical work on the ground has taken place but options are being considered as a few local stakeholders have been contacted regarding bits & pieces e.g bridge demolitions, rights of way and so on.

We all known that M69-M1 North free-flowing is the only sensible option here but my fear is the scope might be squeezed e.g southbound-only free-flow mitigated by combined Smart Motorway.

M1 J19-23a: Not heard anything about this at all, worryingly. J21-23A would be the priority, and J19-21 isn't as desperately needed but would fill in the last gap between London and Sheffield

M69 J2: even with the bypass cancelled, the county council want to add south-facing slips to facilitate development of the south Leicestershire villages (Sapcote, Stoney Stanton, & Broughton Astley complete with bypasses & link roads to the M69) or to facilitate the proposed rail freight interchange at Hinckley. All likely funded by developer money.

M1 J20a: again, there is a huge housing development proposed adjacent to this site. The council again have the aspiration to build the junction for the housing, and relieve the J21 area.

M1 J21a: mutterings of adding north-facing slips here, mostly to facilitate a relocated Leicester Forest East MSA which would have to go for any J21/Smart motorway upgrade.

A46 widening: not heard anything about this, mostly I suspect as it requires major reconstruction of a few bridges between the A5630/A6 junction.

The problem as always, with the Eastern bypass cancelled, we'll end up with a load of individual schemes that eventually become bottlenecks when the induced demand from the housing renders the bypass necessary.
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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by Chris5156 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:22

Thanks for this, Jackal!
jackal wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 20:41
M1 JUNCTION 21A
Proposed new grade separated junction (potentially
free-flow all movements)
I think JUNCTION 21A is a typo for 20A. Even so it doesn't make sense for it to be all movements given eastbound to northbound is much more direct (and freeflow) via M69 and M1 J21.
It has to be a typo. I'm not sure I believe any part of "free-flow all movements" though. Is this another incidence of the phrase "free-flow" being weirdly used to mean "all turns are possible", as recently seen at the M5 J10 consultation?

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Re: Leicester Eastern Bypass

Post by Bryn666 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 09:52

Chris5156 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:22
Thanks for this, Jackal!
jackal wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 20:41
M1 JUNCTION 21A
Proposed new grade separated junction (potentially
free-flow all movements)
I think JUNCTION 21A is a typo for 20A. Even so it doesn't make sense for it to be all movements given eastbound to northbound is much more direct (and freeflow) via M69 and M1 J21.
It has to be a typo. I'm not sure I believe any part of "free-flow all movements" though. Is this another incidence of the phrase "free-flow" being weirdly used to mean "all turns are possible", as recently seen at the M5 J10 consultation?
I'll put a year's supply of biscuits down that it does. HE seem to like reinventing phrases.
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