Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 17598
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by Steven » Tue Mar 23, 2021 14:24

There's a need to be careful when talking about "NO" signs on Special Roads. They're there by convention, not legality; a number of roads with them are not Special Roads and there are examples of non-motorway Special Roads without them.
Steven

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!


User avatar
JohnnyMo
Member
Posts: 5527
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 13:56
Location: Letchworth, Herts, England

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by JohnnyMo » Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:23

Is there any reason for the difference is signage A1 nr Huntingdon and A55 N Wales. My preference would be for the A1 style rather than using words. I could well accept there are different regulation in Scotland

Also if a learner driver under instruction was to drive along the A55, who is liable the driver or the instructor?
Johnny Mo

User avatar
Steven
SABRE Maps Coordinator
Posts: 17598
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 20:39
Location: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by Steven » Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:25

JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:23
Is there any reason for the difference is signage A1 nr Huntingdon and A55 N Wales. My preference would be for the A1 style rather than using words. I could well accept there are different regulation in Scotland

Also if a learner driver under instruction was to drive along the A55, who is liable the driver or the instructor?
IIRC, that section of the A1 is not a Special Road.
Steven

Founder Member, SABRE ex-Presidents' Corner

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!


User avatar
wrinkly
Member
Posts: 8458
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:17
Location: Leeds

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by wrinkly » Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:28

Is it also relevant that they were built 30 years apart? The A55 signs are a bit reminiscent of the "Motorway NO" signs which preceded chopsticks signs.

User avatar
JohnnyMo
Member
Posts: 5527
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 13:56
Location: Letchworth, Herts, England

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by JohnnyMo » Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:53

Steven wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:25
JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:23
Is there any reason for the difference is signage A1 nr Huntingdon and A55 N Wales. My preference would be for the A1 style rather than using words. I could well accept there are different regulation in Scotland

Also if a learner driver under instruction was to drive along the A55, who is liable the driver or the instructor?
IIRC, that section of the A1 is not a Special Road.
Yes I agree, the A1 is a road under a TRO hence :nsl:, however if you check the signage Tractor Prohibited seems inconsistent. Last I heard the A14 was a going to be motorway or a special road to allow VSL to be applied.
Johnny Mo

Conekicker
Member
Posts: 3116
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 22:32
Location: South Yorks

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by Conekicker » Tue Mar 23, 2021 16:50

JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:23
Is there any reason for the difference is signage A1 nr Huntingdon and A55 N Wales. My preference would be for the A1 style rather than using words. I could well accept there are different regulation in Scotland

Also if a learner driver under instruction was to drive along the A55, who is liable the driver or the instructor?
Isn't that section of the A1 just to the north of the junction with the B road supposed to become motorway at some time in the not too distant future?
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.

User avatar
Chris5156
Member
Posts: 14873
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by Chris5156 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 17:16

JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:23
Is there any reason for the difference is signage A1 nr Huntingdon and A55 N Wales. My preference would be for the A1 style rather than using words. I could well accept there are different regulation in Scotland
KeithW wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 14:17
orudge wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 14:02
A special road would require something like this at the start of it (the AWPR is - in legal terms - a motorway, but for this amendment).
Which is presumably what was done here on the A1 in Scotland.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.95531 ... 384!8i8192
If only there was some standard road sign that could be used, so that where people enter a road like that, they could tell that a specific set of regulations applied without having to have every single rule spelled out in a variety of styles, wordings and symbols. That would be a really useful innovation and prevent a lot of confusion and inconsistency across the road network.

:mway:

User avatar
JohnnyMo
Member
Posts: 5527
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 13:56
Location: Letchworth, Herts, England

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by JohnnyMo » Tue Mar 23, 2021 17:50

Chris5156 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 17:16
If only there was some standard road sign that could be used, so that where people enter a road like that, they could tell that a specific set of regulations applied without having to have every single rule spelled out in a variety of styles, wordings and symbols. That would be a really useful innovation and prevent a lot of confusion and inconsistency across the road network.

:mway:
or Auto Road
Johnny Mo

User avatar
jgharston
Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:06
Location: Sheffield/Whitby

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by jgharston » Sat Sep 25, 2021 15:10

gepree68 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:31
Yes this road to the M18/M180 roundabout should also be a motorway.
And what would they call it? B1538(M) ? :laugh:

User avatar
Patrick Harper
Member
Posts: 3013
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 14:41
Location: Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by Patrick Harper » Sat Sep 25, 2021 16:48

jgharston wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 15:10
gepree68 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:31
Yes this road to the M18/M180 roundabout should also be a motorway.
And what would they call it? B1538(M) ? :laugh:
I would make it a western extension of M180, so that the signs on the nose of the M18 J5 exit sliproads don't need to be changed.
YouTubeYouTube (music)Vimeo | Formerly: Paspie (2010–2015) • Paianni (2015–2018) • Skye (2018–2020)

User avatar
coneman
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 19:58
Location: The 'Fechan

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by coneman » Sat Sep 25, 2021 18:40

I've posted this one on another thread a few years ago ( but can't remember which one )
This is the B7076 Glasgow Rd Gretna Green which is the A74(m) J 22 n/bound on slip, however it
IS escapable due to the fact that there is a field access on the right, so if you inadvertently take
your pushbike/horse & cart/shanks' pony you will be able to turn around and go back.
Just be aware of the vehicles coming at you on the "wrong side" of the road due to the faded
direction arrows.!
https://goo.gl/maps/FbVbfpNFwqPaGQrv6
Patience and perserverance pished a hole in a stane !

Phil
Member
Posts: 1824
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2002 18:03
Location: Burgess Hill,W Sussex, UK

Re: Inescapable B-road to a motorway?

Post by Phil » Fri Oct 01, 2021 03:19

JohnnyMo wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 15:53
Last I heard the A14 was a going to be motorway or a special road to allow VSL to be applied.
Yup.

But thanks to the parliamentary logjam created by Brexit and so as to allow the new road to open on time* (thus avoiding bad press) it was easier to amend existing legislation to allow VSLs to be applied to A roads than sort out the creation of a new 'Special Road' legislation.

* Doing this was critical to other things like the demolition of the old viaduct happening on schedule - which in part depended on getting long possessions of the ECML (only abalible a couple of time a year)

Post Reply