A27 Lewes - Polegate

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jervi
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A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by jervi » Sun Apr 12, 2020 18:30

Surprised can't find a topic on here for current/future works for A27 between Lewes and Polegate. So here's a new one thread :o
Someone(else) put in a FOI for the case study for the A27 between Lewes and Polegate that might be of intrest.
:arrow: <- yeah you can click on it :wink:
It's been a topic for quite a while with proposals in 1993, the half-effort upgrade at Beddingham and the RIS1 scheme (which have not yet started construction) at several junctions "EasT of LeWeS".
It is mentioned in the RIS2 as a future scheme potentially for RIS3.

This case study sets out some PCF stages (Project Control Framework), and the last one is OTT (Open To Traffic), as December 2030! Seems a bit too soon, even if it is announced for RIS3.
In the document there are 9 Offline Interventions Considered, which follow one of three corridors (variations being dual/single carriageway & GSJs at Cophall Rdbt).
The routes vary between 14km to 16km of new offline route, and 2.2-2.7KM of on-line upgrade (over the recent Beddingham improvements (changes to S3 to D2))
Cost of the schemes after risks & inflation (2016 prices est for 2030) range from £270m to £313m for Single carriageway solutions and £438m to £528m for dual carriageway solutions.

Personally, I'd say Intervention 1 would be the best option, while it would be nice to have GSJ at Cophall, it really isn't necessary since it would be the only (fully formed) GSJ on the entire South Coast Trunk Route (A27,A259,A2070) between Falmer (24km to the West) and Ashford (73.3km to the East). Also the cost estimates are 90m different just for 1 GSJ ?!?

M27, A27(M) or A27? With Expressways being a thing (in theory), this upgrade could meet the requirement of being one. Under GD 300, section E/1.1 point 3, it states that an expressway can be designated if it "has a length that exceeds 10 miles with terminal junctions that intersect with the edge of an urban area". If Beddingham roundabout was made into a full GSJ it could be made into an Expressway (assuming it would be built to that standard and not APDC. The length of the road between Lewes and Polegate would be between 10.1 and 11.3 miles long depending on the route chosen, so just about meets the criteria. But what would it be called?

From the SABRE Wiki: Cop Hall Roundabout :


Cop Hall Roundabout is a roundabout on the Polegate Bypass. It was built in 2002 to allow an underpass taking the A27 round the western side of Polegate and continuing on a new dualled alignment to Lewes. However that scheme was already put on hold in 1996 pending a spending review prior to the Polegate Bypass opening. Highways England's 2015 plans to improve the A27 is for online dualling of the existing southern exit and improve Eastbourne Road Junction. The planned underpass

... Read More

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Gareth Thomas » Fri Apr 17, 2020 18:40

jervi wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 18:30
But what would it be called?
I'd say it would probably be "A27" - it isn't an extension of the M27 and would look weird being an isolated motorway in Sussex if A27(M). Although it would be nice to get a new motorway number. :-P
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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by jackal » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:16

I like the 14km+ junction spacing for these proposals - it's ridiculous how often offline DCs have junctions for villages that can still access the old road.

I wonder why all proposals are online between Southerham and Bedderingham? Grade separation would be welcome there as well as at Polegate.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by jervi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:54

jackal wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:16
I wonder why all proposals are online between Southerham and Bedderingham? Grade separation would be welcome there as well as at Polegate.
They are online because in 2004 (IIRC) that short section between Southerham rdbt and Beddingham rdbt was realigned and got a bridge over the railway. The bridge was built as a S2+1 but wide enough to allow the future D2 to pass over it, so that's why this bit is online. Also I believe that by "online" and "offline" is referring to position of the corridor, not necessarily the actual type of upgrade.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by thatapanydude » Thu Apr 23, 2020 15:31

I have only just seen the proposals for upgrading the A27 here, I have to say it is a disgrace! (FYI a few isolated single carriageway bypasses)

I cannot for the life think of me why 75m is being spent on upgrading on the cheap with isolated single carriageway improvements, when instead it seems obvious that a simple DC bypass to the north hugging the railway line is the long term solution. In my opinion I think HE should just focus on one bit of the A27 at a time and do it properly rather than spreading money thinly on the different schemes which has little long term value or benefit.
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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by jervi » Thu Apr 23, 2020 19:04

thatapanydude wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 15:31
I have only just seen the proposals for upgrading the A27 here, I have to say it is a disgrace! (FYI a few isolated single carriageway bypasses)

I cannot for the life think of me why 75m is being spent on upgrading on the cheap with isolated single carriageway improvements, when instead it seems obvious that a simple DC bypass to the north hugging the railway line is the long term solution. In my opinion I think HE should just focus on one bit of the A27 at a time and do it properly rather than spreading money thinly on the different schemes which has little long term value or benefit.
In the "East of Lewes" scheme that is due to start construction next week, yes it is too much money spent on too little. Not 100% sure that the distribution of money is spent on each junction or the new "dual carriageway" (most of it is going to be S4) A27 connecting the B2270 to the A22. However, one benefit there will be is a new cycle track built between Beddingham & Polegate, but clearly 14km of cycle path doesn't cost £74m.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by jackal » Thu Apr 23, 2020 20:14

jervi wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 19:04
the new "dual carriageway" (most of it is going to be S4)
That truly is an oddity of the scheme. What's worse is, as your scare quotes indicate, HE refer to this as dualling, dual carriageway, etc, making the schoolboy error that 2 lanes in each direction=dual carriageway (see, e.g., http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... easons.pdf).

Plans (west to east):
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... erwick.pdf
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... h+Lane.pdf
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... legate.pdf
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... pass+1.pdf
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... pass+2.pdf

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by SouthWest Philip » Thu Apr 23, 2020 21:12

I agree with the premise that, with the exception of the cycle path, it would be better to do nothing to the current A27 and focus on building a proper off line, limited access dual carriageway bypass instead.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by GeekyJames » Sun Aug 16, 2020 19:49

Work is progressing well on the A27 between the Cophall roundabout and the junction with the A2270 - but causing long queues especially Eastbound as I found last weekend!

I do wonder if the cylce path is worth installing as I rarely encounter cyclists, personally I think some S2+1 sections would be of more benefit long this stretch. Looking at the plans there's lots of maintenance access points being installed along the cycle path.

http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... slides.pdf

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by jervi » Sat Aug 22, 2020 19:08

GeekyJames wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 19:49
Work is progressing well on the A27 between the Cophall roundabout and the junction with the A2270 - but causing long queues especially Eastbound as I found last weekend!

I do wonder if the cylce path is worth installing as I rarely encounter cyclists, personally I think some S2+1 sections would be of more benefit long this stretch. Looking at the plans there's lots of maintenance access points being installed along the cycle path.

http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... slides.pdf
The cycle path is definitely something that is needed, from Lewes to Firle there is a very nice high quality cycle track (except the bit around Southerham) that just ends in the middle of nowhere, clearly intended to continue on on Polegate.
At the moment at Firle road cyclists have to use the A27, if they are brave enough. and off-road bikes can use the "old coach road" (unpaved byway) along with other byways and bridleways, which runs along the bottom of the downs all the way to Polegate, this is likely why its rare to see cyclists using the A27. So this cycle track will allow all bicycles to get between the two towns quicker & shorter.
Getting some S2+1 sections would be nice, however the road is mostly saturated, so the actual benefit will be minor since overtaking traffic would just have to merge back causing slower traffic, and even if you do over take a HVG, you would be stuck behind another queue of traffic not too far ahead.
It needs proper dualing, and the chances of on-line dualing on its current alignment with over 40 junctions (including farm accesses) is just not feasible in the 21st century, hence why they are only going to be interested in dualing on a majority off-line alignment in hopefully RP3.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by GeekyJames » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:09

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1960181 ... ilmington/

No longer will a ghost island be built at the Wilmington junction following a last minute change by HE

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Micro The Maniac » Tue Sep 28, 2021 16:33

Gareth Thomas wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 18:40
I'd say it would probably be "A27" - it isn't an extension of the M27
Since the thread has been resurrected, cough, A1... A1(M)... A1... A1(M)... A1

So what's wrong with M27... A27... M27... A27 ?

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Chris Bertram » Tue Sep 28, 2021 23:17

Micro The Maniac wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 16:33
Gareth Thomas wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 18:40
I'd say it would probably be "A27" - it isn't an extension of the M27
Since the thread has been resurrected, cough, A1... A1(M)... A1... A1(M)... A1

So what's wrong with M27... A27... M27... A27 ?
I think we like our full motorways to be continuous (eventually anyway, gaps during construction seem to be tolerated*), but motorway upgrades of A-roads can be intermittent. A27 also runs parallel to M27 until it heads off NW to meet A36 while M27 makes a beeline for the New Forest.

* NI M2 remains as a ghostly reminder of such a situation, though any chance of it being joined up has long since been lost.
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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Micro The Maniac » Wed Sep 29, 2021 06:47

Chris Bertram wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 23:17
I think we like our full motorways to be continuous (eventually anyway, gaps during construction seem to be tolerated*), but motorway upgrades of A-roads can be intermittent.
Yeah, but... it would be a clear indication of an aspiration to finish the south coast motorway
A27 also runs parallel to M27 until it heads off NW to meet A36 while M27 makes a beeline for the New Forest.
And the old A27 (now the A259) runs parallel with the new A27 once the M27 runs out

There is very little reason already that the A27 between the M27 and the first Chichester junction is not M27 or A27(M) or even A27(X) - so likewise-designating the bit east of Chichester would highlight the gap that needs fixing

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Fluid Dynamics » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:04

Micro The Maniac wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 06:47
Chris Bertram wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 23:17
I think we like our full motorways to be continuous (eventually anyway, gaps during construction seem to be tolerated*), but motorway upgrades of A-roads can be intermittent.
Yeah, but... it would be a clear indication of an aspiration to finish the south coast motorway
A27 also runs parallel to M27 until it heads off NW to meet A36 while M27 makes a beeline for the New Forest.
And the old A27 (now the A259) runs parallel with the new A27 once the M27 runs out

There is very little reason already that the A27 between the M27 and the first Chichester junction is not M27 or A27(M) or even A27(X) - so likewise-designating the bit east of Chichester would highlight the gap that needs fixing
There never was a plan for a continuous motorway. The last part of the M27 was completed in 1984. The A27 Farlington bypass which I grew up overlooking was widened to 4 lanes in 1979 by Gleesons at the same time as the A3(M) was built. The Havant to Chichester section of the the A27 was opened in '87/88 from memory and was the only other section ever planned to originally be built as a motorway. All these opened before I left school and whilst we have seen HQ bypasses/improvements at Crossbush, Patching, Brighton and Polegate in the intervening years, I am 50 next year old next year and see the chances of any new blue signs appearing along the south coast as less than zero.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Micro The Maniac » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:16

Fluid Dynamics wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:04
There never was a plan for a continuous motorway.
I'm not suggesting there *was* a plan for a south cost motorway - but that there *should be* a plan for one.

That it is quicker and easier to get from Dover to Southampton via the M20, M25, M3 is utterly absurd.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Fluid Dynamics » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:36

Micro The Maniac wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:16
[quote="Fluid Dynamics" post_id=<a href="tel:1207727">1207727</a> time=<a href="tel:1632913443">1632913443</a> user_id=259]
There never was a plan for a continuous motorway.
I'm not suggesting there *was* a plan for a south cost motorway - but that there *should be* a plan for one.

That it is quicker and easier to get from Dover to Southampton via the M20, M25, M3 is utterly absurd.
[/quote]

High quality dual-carriage way is sufficient. The M25-M3 is a similar distance for journeys west of Southampton compared to the coastal route.

There was a plan for a HQ route in Roads to Prosperity which would have improved the route between Havant and the M20, mostly to dual carriageway. This was planned around about the time the Channel Tunnel was being constructed. Most of it was dropped in the mid 1990s cull of the road programme, other bits like the Hasting bypass dropped in the early 2000s (although in part built as the watered down Bexhill Link Road). Some schemes have re-entered the programme, but Pevensey to Breznett section remains woeful.

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by A303Chris » Wed Sep 29, 2021 13:59

GeekyJames wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:09
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1960181 ... ilmington/

No longer will a ghost island be built at the Wilmington junction following a last minute change by HE
I just do not get this, a right turn lane is very useful for people driving right out of side roads and i've used them on the roads to the west to get on to the A27.

But to hide behind a RSA, not make it public and not to consulate after saying they were going to one thing, just smacks of cost cutting.

Similar to the M4 Smart motorway scheme, consultation documents and those shown at the examination in public so 4 lane ALR throughout the scheme except for lane drops at J4B (M25) and J10 (A329(M)) as well as the extremities of the scheme.

Now they have appeared at J11, J8/9, J6 and J5 during construction. Obviously the RSA said so is the new National Highways excuse. Unfortunately after 30 years in the business the quality of Civil Servants and Local Government Officers is extremely poor now.
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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by KeithW » Wed Sep 29, 2021 14:17

Micro The Maniac wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:16
Fluid Dynamics wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:04
There never was a plan for a continuous motorway.
I'm not suggesting there *was* a plan for a south cost motorway - but that there *should be* a plan for one.

That it is quicker and easier to get from Dover to Southampton via the M20, M25, M3 is utterly absurd.
Is it ?

Via the A20/M20/M25/M3 its 150 miles
Via the M20/A27 its 151 miles
Via the A20/A259/A27 its 145 miles

Its a bit shorter if you take the unclassified roads across Romney Marsh but its a lot slower and I dont think anyone will try and build a motorway there.

When they were looking at options for upgrading the A259 in the 1990's the only acceptable way they could find to get past Rye and Winchelsea was by a series of very expensive tunnels.
Hastings was also a big issue as the only viable route was across the Marline Valley Nature Reserve.

That combination killed the project stone dead.

See
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... 3_Pevensey

There are some opportunities for upgrading A259 local hot spots but a south coast motorway is not going to happen , if nothing else much of it would have to encroach on the South Downs NP and there are very sensitive points such as Rye and Winchelsea. Solve all that and you still have the problems of Worthing and Chichester on the A27.

From the SABRE Wiki: A259#Dover .E2.80.93 Pevensey :

The A259 makes up in length what the other A25x roads lack. It starts in Folkestone, heads along the coast through Hythe, Romney and over the Sussex border to Rye. Then it goes via Hastings, Eastbourne, Brighton, Worthing, Bognor and Chichester and finally ends at Havant in Hampshire.

From Pevensey to Havant the route is effectively shadowing the A27, only going through more towns and sticking closer to the coast. The A259 forms part of the

... Read More

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Re: A27 Lewes - Polegate

Post by Micro The Maniac » Wed Sep 29, 2021 15:32

Fluid Dynamics wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:36
High quality dual-carriage way is sufficient.
It would be a start... but a strategic route such as across the south coast should be motorway. There is arguably more justification for Dover-Southampton being motorway than any of the two-digit motorways, bar the M25 and M20. The current start and end of the M27 are little short of random points along the route.

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