Hello National Highways

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OLD GIT
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by OLD GIT » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:16

Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 20:10
Steven wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 19:56
What on earth are HETOs (ne HATOs) known as now? NHTOs really doesn't scan well.
Customer Service Representatives? Wombles?
I've always thought that "Wombles" was nearer the mark. And isn't that what we've always called them ? An alternaive name would be in keeping with their functions around a broken down motorway vehicle, where they stand flapping their arms like a pregnant swan trying to take off.
And as for Scotland, I wouldn't have thought the SNP would mind (as long as someone else paid for their upkeep).

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the cheesecake man
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by the cheesecake man » Mon Sep 06, 2021 18:30

exiled wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 21:34
It is not that unusual for placeholder names in official documents to have, he hem, interesting abbreviations. If you see a name that is awkward and difficult to abbreviate it is often due to either a shot gun marriage, or the new name was not adapted until the last minute.
One I know I've mentioned before but still one of the best: West Yorkshire Police called their Yorkshire Ripper Squad the Special Homicide Investigation Team.

If they like "Wombles" what about calling the organisation Wombles And National Keepers of England's Road Surfaces?

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by EpicChef » Mon Sep 06, 2021 18:59

the cheesecake man wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 18:30
If they like "Wombles" what about calling the organisation Wombles And National Keepers of England's Road Surfaces?
I see what you did there :laugh:
Smart motorways are like asbestos: they're the best option until suddenly they're not.

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Peter350
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Why have Highways England decided to change their name to National Highways?

Post by Peter350 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 16:03

Why, just why?

From HA to HE to NH within the space of less than a decade. It was perfectly fine as it was. National Highways makes no sense as it still only covers English roads, unless they plan to take over the responsibility of Scottish and Welsh roads, likely to the bemusement of Sturgeon and Drakeford. Also HETO has a much better ring to it than NHTO, and HATO even more so.

I know not everyone will agree with me so I’ve set up a poll to determine which name suits (or suited) the organisation best.

EDIT: There now is no poll as the thread I created has been merged with this one.
Last edited by Peter350 on Wed Oct 20, 2021 17:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Vierwielen
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by Vierwielen » Wed Oct 20, 2021 17:37

Mark Hewitt wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 09:04
hat wrote:I see British Rail is also making a comeback, also now as National Rail, complete with the same 1970s logo
The 'British Rail' logo has never been out of use of course. Still appearing on station signs and tickets.
... and road signs!!!!!!

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Vierwielen
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by Vierwielen » Wed Oct 20, 2021 17:46

When the new manager took over the department, he found that his predecessor had left him three envelopes in the top drawer, marked "1 - Open and read me first", "2 - Open and read me when instructed" and "3 - Open and read me when instructed".

The letter inside envelope No 1 said "Dear Successor, I wish you luck in your new role. Please free free to blame me for any problems that you might come across. When you run out of reasons to blame me, open Envelope No 2"

The letter inside Envelope No 2 said "Dear Successor, You have obviously been here for some time and I suggest that you re-organise the department. How you do the re-organisation is up to you. Whatever you do, it will keep the department going. Once you have run out of ideas about how to re-organise things, open Envelope No 3".

The letter inside Envelope No 3 said "Dear Successor, I suggest that you prepare three envelopes."

I suspect that the rebranding is on the instruction of an Envelope No 2.

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Peter350
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by Peter350 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:01

Vierwielen wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 17:46
When the new manager took over the department, he found that his predecessor had left him three envelopes in the top drawer, marked "1 - Open and read me first", "2 - Open and read me when instructed" and "3 - Open and read me when instructed".

The letter inside envelope No 1 said "Dear Successor, I wish you luck in your new role. Please free free to blame me for any problems that you might come across. When you run out of reasons to blame me, open Envelope No 2"

The letter inside Envelope No 2 said "Dear Successor, You have obviously been here for some time and I suggest that you re-organise the department. How you do the re-organisation is up to you. Whatever you do, it will keep the department going. Once you have run out of ideas about how to re-organise things, open Envelope No 3".

The letter inside Envelope No 3 said "Dear Successor, I suggest that you prepare three envelopes."

I suspect that the rebranding is on the instruction of an Envelope No 2.
But what was wrong with the name Highways England?

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by wrinkly » Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:32

Peter350 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:01
But what was wrong with the name Highways England?
I saw a rumour somewhere that it was BoJo's personal idea. Maybe it's part of his plan to obscure the fact that the UK government is not responsible for roads outside England (see Union Connectivity Review).

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by exiled » Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:43

wrinkly wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:32
Peter350 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:01
But what was wrong with the name Highways England?
I saw a rumour somewhere that it was BoJo's personal idea. Maybe it's part of his plan to obscure the fact that the UK government is not responsible for roads outside England (see Union Connectivity Review).
Basically this, Johnson has already made overtures about interfering in devolved transport infrastructure, with proposals on the A75, M4, A55 over the heads of the Scottish and Welsh Governments who are the responsible bodies.
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by EpicChef » Wed Oct 20, 2021 19:57

exiled wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:43
wrinkly wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:32
Peter350 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 18:01
But what was wrong with the name Highways England?
I saw a rumour somewhere that it was BoJo's personal idea. Maybe it's part of his plan to obscure the fact that the UK government is not responsible for roads outside England (see Union Connectivity Review).
Basically this, Johnson has already made overtures about interfering in devolved transport infrastructure, with proposals on the A75, M4, A55 over the heads of the Scottish and Welsh Governments who are the responsible bodies.
The only good that could come of it is the M6 finally being extended all the way to Glasgow.
But of course that will be forgotten. The government have a knack for doing things for not the right purposes.
Smart motorways are like asbestos: they're the best option until suddenly they're not.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by KeithW » Wed Oct 20, 2021 20:35

EpicChef wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 19:57

The only good that could come of it is the M6 finally being extended all the way to Glasgow.
But of course that will be forgotten. The government have a knack for doing things for not the right purposes.
Actually thats about the one thing you can guarantee will NOT happen. What IMHO would be an improvement is renaming the whole thing M74 and getting rid of the A74(M) nonsense.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by Osthagen » Wed Oct 20, 2021 20:47

KeithW wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 20:35
EpicChef wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 19:57

The only good that could come of it is the M6 finally being extended all the way to Glasgow.
But of course that will be forgotten. The government have a knack for doing things for not the right purposes.
Actually thats about the one thing you can guarantee will NOT happen. What IMHO would be an improvement is renaming the whole thing M74 and getting rid of the A74(M) nonsense.
Unless I am mistaken, you are among the individuals to have criticised users whose preference is for the A1(M) between Hook Moor and Gateshead to be re-designated as M1. The key criticism against this renumbering is the cost of replacing signs, and precisely this applies to renumbering A74(M) to M74.

Renumbering to M6, on the other hand, would cost FAR less because the majority of signs on the A74(M) corridor contain the number ''M6'' overlain with a ''A74(M)'' patch.
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by Glen » Wed Oct 20, 2021 20:51

This level of stupidity could only have come from the top.
It's clearly an idea from Bozo to pretend he is responsible for things that he isn't and trying to overreach into devolved responsibilities.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by EpicChef » Wed Oct 20, 2021 21:21

Osthagen wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 20:47
Unless I am mistaken, you are among the individuals to have criticised users whose preference is for the A1(M) between Hook Moor and Gateshead to be re-designated as M1...
...something which I think is [mostly] a very sensible thing to do!

The A1(M) north of Hook Moor until at least Barton is of a similar standard and quality. Barton to Gateshead it's only D2M, something I wouldn't associate with the M1 however.
Smart motorways are like asbestos: they're the best option until suddenly they're not.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by Osthagen » Wed Oct 20, 2021 22:05

EpicChef wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 21:21
...something which I think is [mostly] a very sensible thing to do!

The A1(M) north of Hook Moor until at least Barton is of a similar standard and quality. Barton to Gateshead it's only D2M, something I wouldn't associate with the M1 however.
The Gateshead-Barton motorway is not entirely D2M. The northernmost 5 miles or so is more-or-less exclusively D3M, and relatively HQ at that.
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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by EpicChef » Wed Oct 20, 2021 22:26

Osthagen wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 22:05
EpicChef wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 21:21
...something which I think is [mostly] a very sensible thing to do!

The A1(M) north of Hook Moor until at least Barton is of a similar standard and quality. Barton to Gateshead it's only D2M, something I wouldn't associate with the M1 however.
The Gateshead-Barton motorway is not entirely D2M. The northernmost 5 miles or so is more-or-less exclusively D3M, and relatively HQ at that.
But the vast majority of that section is D2M, and that's not HQ enough for the M1 (at least going by the standard of the rest of the M1).
Smart motorways are like asbestos: they're the best option until suddenly they're not.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by KeithW » Thu Oct 21, 2021 00:18

Osthagen wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 20:47

Unless I am mistaken, you are among the individuals to have criticised users whose preference is for the A1(M) between Hook Moor and Gateshead to be re-designated as M1. The key criticism against this renumbering is the cost of replacing signs, and precisely this applies to renumbering A74(M) to M74.

Renumbering to M6, on the other hand, would cost FAR less because the majority of signs on the A74(M) corridor contain the number ''M6'' overlain with a ''A74(M)'' patch.
You are indeed correct, in my opinion this is another pointless exercise that would fail to generate any benefit and cost money that could be better spent on real improvements. The major problem for the A1(M) between Barton and Gateshead is the fact that it has scarcely changed since it opened in the 1960's. The shortage of modern matrix signs is a real pain. On the occasions I head up to Tyneside from J59 its always a mystery as to what is happening farther north. The only reliable information as to what is happening before Gateshead is local radio.

Worse re signing the entire length from Hook Moor to Darlington would require lots of sign changes on the roads leading to the motorway along major routes such as the A58, A64, A66, A19, A168, A684, A61 etc. Further you would introduce a purely artificial number change on a contiguous route between Hook Moor and Gateshead at which point it reverts to A1 all the way to Edinburgh !

Now in the case of the A74(M) / M74 you have a contiguous road which has the junction numbers you would expect but this anomalous signing. Renaming is NOT a high priority in my view but it would be more logical and tidier. I see little chance of an SNP dominated government accepting a change to M6. I do also wonder how practical peeling off stickers that have been there for over 30 years would be. Fortunately there are relatively few major junctions between Gretna and J13.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by EpicChef » Thu Oct 21, 2021 02:58

KeithW wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 00:18
The shortage of modern matrix signs is a real pain.
It's really astounding how signals originally designed in the 60s are still going strong in some places on the UK network. Yes, there are huge upgrades on most major stretches, but is it appropriate to use MS1s on their own at all? Should there be a requirement for MS3 or MS4 VMS every mile instead of MS1 every 2 miles?
Smart motorways are like asbestos: they're the best option until suddenly they're not.

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Re: Hello National Highways

Post by Achmelvic » Thu Oct 21, 2021 08:58

Osthagen wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 20:47
Renumbering to M6, on the other hand, would cost FAR less because the majority of signs on the A74(M) corridor contain the number ''M6'' overlain with a ''A74(M)'' patch.
I think this was shown a while back to be an urban myth, patched M6 signs are in the minority and only on a few of the sections of A74(M) depending when they were built/the policy at the time. IIRC its mostly in middle sections with the northern and southern sections having A74(M) 'original' signs which are in the majority. There are patches on some local road signs at junctions but believe a lot of these were covering up older green A74 symbols.

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Re: Why have Highways England decided to change their name to National Highways?

Post by KeithW » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:39

Peter350 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 16:03
Why, just why?

From HA to HE to NH within the space of less than a decade. It was perfectly fine as it was. National Highways makes no sense as it still only covers English roads, unless they plan to take over the responsibility of Scottish and Welsh roads, likely to the bemusement of Sturgeon and Drakeford. Also HETO has a much better ring to it than NHTO, and HATO even more so.

I know not everyone will agree with me so I’ve set up a poll to determine which name suits (or suited) the organisation best.

EDIT: There now is no poll as the thread I created has been merged with this one.
Note that England is just as much a Nation as Scotland or Wales. The problem is that the name Highways Authority is ambiguous as frankly is National Highways, personally I thought that Highways England was fine but I am not going to lose any sleep over it. Governments always feel they have to be seen as doing something, it has been so at least as far back as when Hammurabi introduced his code in ancient Babylon.

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