Cyclops junctions

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Patrick Harper
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Re: Cyclops junctions

Post by Patrick Harper » Sat Oct 23, 2021 00:03

andrewwoods wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 15:21
Bryn666 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 15:10
Yes, but the argument is often trotted out that this type of infrastructure is "no good for cyclists who use the road". We don't design for that demographic, since they're happy to be in the road. We design for the 12 year old who should be able to ride a bike to school safely, which means that safety takes priority over speed.
Safety of the 12 year old, yes, but not safety of the cyclist on the road who is subjected to punishment passes from irate motorists because he's not on the cycle path.

The Netherlands seem to manage to provide cycle infrastructure that suits both demographics. Why can't we?
The use of their infrastructure is mandated for all cyclists where available, so whether the main carriageways are more suitable for a certain category of cyclists is kinda a moot point.
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Debaser
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Re: Cyclops junctions

Post by Debaser » Sat Oct 23, 2021 16:37

andrewwoods wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 15:21
Bryn666 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 15:10
Yes, but the argument is often trotted out that this type of infrastructure is "no good for cyclists who use the road". We don't design for that demographic, since they're happy to be in the road. We design for the 12 year old who should be able to ride a bike to school safely, which means that safety takes priority over speed.
Safety of the 12 year old, yes, but not safety of the cyclist on the road who is subjected to punishment passes from irate motorists because he's not on the cycle path.

The Netherlands seem to manage to provide cycle infrastructure that suits both demographics. Why can't we?
In the UK, with few notable exceptions, cycling is still only at 1% or 2% modal share. In some cities in the Netherlands it can be 20% or even 50% in some cities. That 1% to 2% which is mainly men, mainly between 18 and 40, and which is so visible in the UK due to their limited numbers, are subsumed into a much larger population of old, young and female dominated cyclists. Even if they wanted to blat along at 25mph+ on the carriageway the behaviour of the wider, slower demographic prevails.

Imagine the difference between a motoring population comprising only Audi, BMW and Merc drivers (i.e. Mad Max on steroids), compared with the mix of driver types we actually have and the (generally) reasonable behaviour we also have.

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Re: Cyclops junctions

Post by Debaser » Sat Oct 23, 2021 16:53

crb11 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 21:27
Turning left, you're correct, although I think you have to give way to cyclists already on the lane (like a standard roundabout).
Unnecessary internal give-way lines seem to be a feature of Manchester (the originators of the CYCLOPS variation) cycle infrastructure. I can only imagine the average Dutch cyclist pointing and laughing that we think we need such control given our numbers of cyclists. If their flocks of cyclists can merge and flow around junctions based simply on the direction they're looking or, absolute worst-case, talking to each other (god forbid we behave like that in England), then I'm sure we can try.

The day we really need internal give-way lines at junctions like these, due to the sheer volume of cyclists using them, is the day the entire cohort of UK traffic engineers can throw a national party to which everyone else in the country is invited.

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Re: Cyclops junctions

Post by 2 Sheds » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:58

JammyDodge wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 19:13
I think these videos may help in understanding how these types of junctions work:
https://youtu.be/7FBncwFDVHk
https://youtu.be/kqAPbmBWgMw
Looking at the first of these videos, if cyclists just follow the clockwise route around the junction legs on green surfacing, what is the purpose of the full width green areas in front of each vehicle stop line ?

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jervi
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Re: Cyclops junctions

Post by jervi » Mon Oct 25, 2021 13:41

2 Sheds wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:58
JammyDodge wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 19:13
I think these videos may help in understanding how these types of junctions work:
https://youtu.be/7FBncwFDVHk
https://youtu.be/kqAPbmBWgMw
Looking at the first of these videos, if cyclists just follow the clockwise route around the junction legs on green surfacing, what is the purpose of the full width green areas in front of each vehicle stop line ?
Just a regular ASL. In some circumstance it may be quicker to cycle along with other traffic, some may choose to use it instead of the cycle track. Also if roadworks or other maintenance requires part of the cycle track to be closed then having an ASL is built in redundancy.

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Re: Cyclops junctions

Post by B1040 » Thu Nov 04, 2021 14:19

So, so far, I've benefited from the left turn filter lane when heading into Cambridge.
So far every time I've cycled out of Cambridge, the main traffic lights have been in my favour and the use of the gyratory lane would have involved sitting through an entire cycle.

jnty
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Re: Cyclops junctions

Post by jnty » Thu Nov 04, 2021 15:57

jervi wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 13:41
Also if roadworks or other maintenance requires part of the cycle track to be closed then having an ASL is built in redundancy.

This is sensible - if Edinburgh cycle infrastructure is anything to go by, it'll be a magnet for utility companies' spades. Brand new infrastructure being almost immediately dug up, sometimes for weeks or months, is quite common. One or two of the COVID lanes were even shut weeks after being opened!

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