red routes, is there any info on requirements

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forestgump
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red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by forestgump » Mon Oct 25, 2021 22:31

From what I can see red routes seem to be virtually unregulated in terms of critera that must be met before a LA can impose one, can anyone point me to official guidance?
I am refering to the temporary red route throughout Epping Forest, it is about to expire and so NEPP has put a new permanent red route out for "consulation" same roads, same red lines but different reasons from the temporary under cover of Covid one!

KeithW
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Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by KeithW » Tue Oct 26, 2021 07:50

Usually its done by a Traffic Regulation Order by the local council.

You will find an example here for Clifton Drive North, Lytham St Annes.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/roads-par ... ders-tros/

TRO's may be temporary or permanent.

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Bryn666
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Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08

Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.

Since 2016 they simply require a TRO/TMO in London. Previously they required DfT approval outside of London due to the signs being non-prescribed but now they can be used anywhere.
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M4Simon
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Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by M4Simon » Thu Oct 28, 2021 09:15

Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08
Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.

Since 2016 they simply require a TRO/TMO in London. Previously they required DfT approval outside of London due to the signs being non-prescribed but now they can be used anywhere.
Even here :o
20211010_111547.jpg
I'll leave it for others to identify where this is and will edit this post in due course.

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Micro The Maniac
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Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Micro The Maniac » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00

Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08
Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
It's not that simple, is it...

A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).

Whether Red Routes were needed or Clearway was enough is perhaps a more legitimate question?

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jervi
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Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by jervi » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:24

Micro The Maniac wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00
Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08
Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.14631 ... 384!8i8192
Why not have both! No waiting or you will be towed, but also no stopping. However the lack of lines on the offside means there are no restrictions there?

Also I thought that the Red route clearway sign had to be located at the start of the double red lines, although here they are about 30m out. Clearly they painted the double reds over the double yellows, which don't require a sign at the start.

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Bryn666
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Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Bryn666 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:53

Micro The Maniac wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00
Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08
Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
It's not that simple, is it...

A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).

Whether Red Routes were needed or Clearway was enough is perhaps a more legitimate question?
Red Routes replaced many of London's Urban Clearways, which were an additional peak time restriction on top of conventional waiting restrictions. The lack of compliance and political need to be "seen to do something about congestion" is why they were introduced.

A conventional Clearway only applies to the main carriageway so footways aren't covered. It also is an absolute prohibition on stopping whereas a Red Route allows specific classes of vehicle to pick up or set down passengers.
Bryn
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Chris5156
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Re: red routes, is there any info on requirements

Post by Chris5156 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 18:02

Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:53
Micro The Maniac wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:00
Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 15:08
Worth reiterating that Red Routes wouldn't be necessary if drivers could have behaved on conventional yellows.
It's not that simple, is it...

A Red Route means "No stopping". Period. No exceptions.

Double yellows mean "No waiting" but do permit loading/unloading unless signed to the contrary, and blue-badge holders are permitted to stop/park on them (subject to other restrictions).

Whether Red Routes were needed or Clearway was enough is perhaps a more legitimate question?
Red Routes replaced many of London's Urban Clearways, which were an additional peak time restriction on top of conventional waiting restrictions. The lack of compliance and political need to be "seen to do something about congestion" is why they were introduced.

A conventional Clearway only applies to the main carriageway so footways aren't covered. It also is an absolute prohibition on stopping whereas a Red Route allows specific classes of vehicle to pick up or set down passengers.
Interestingly there was already a campaign pushing for “red routes” to speed up traffic in London, but when the DTp picked up the idea in the early 1990s (a time when they urgently wanted to be seen doing something positive to help traffic flow in London, following the cancellation of all London-wide road building and widening plans in 1990) they were adamant that they must not be red. Initial sketches showed amber edge markings and signs. It’s not clear how that would have looked under orange sodium lighting, or whether it would have been different enough to yellow edge lines, but at some point someone must have caved in because when they finally appeared they ended up red.

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