Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

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multiraider2
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Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by multiraider2 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 23:52

We have a small road-digging situation locally and accompanying temporary traffic lights.

green light.jpg
Road obstruction.jpg

This is not a whinge or a moan about, what I am sure, are prescribed and necessary signals for this particular hole and of course traffic turning into Southcote Road will be on the wrong side. I do understand. More a matter that just amuses me personally because:-

* There are many cars parked within the traffic light area on both sides of my road as the lights (out of shot) are much further back from the "obstruction" than the light shown. They will of course just move as soon as they are ready and just like normal, have the ability to create a potential conflicting movement.
* Because there are almost always cars parked on both sides of the road and now parking is banned on one side for 40 yards to allow vehicles to pass, this gives road users as much space as they usually have. One vehicle has to normally wait at a road junction to allow the other to proceed. There is always no "wrong" side. Vehicles have to drive down the centre of the road normally. (Again accepting not actually at the turn.)
* If vehicles do move on green and turn into Southcote Road, they will probably actually be stopped by any vehicle waiting at the red in that road with nowhere for either to go, unless they back out of the road again and wait.
* Immediately before I took the first shot, the first car I saw approach the lights went straight through the red. I imagine this will happen quite a bit over the next few days.

Oh, but having said all that, can we please keep them and/or an artificial obstruction. As mentioned in the Numpty thread there are idiots here who treat the road as a one-way drag strip.
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WHBM
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Re: Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by WHBM » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:11

Utilities contractors always like erecting traffic signals, even where give-and-take would be more appropriate, because they come as a separate Schedule of Rates item on the charging they do to their client. particularly for a two day work job, started on Friday and finished on Monday, where you get four days of billing for TTLs which are charged through the weekend.

Just in case you think this is my hyperbole, a couple of minutes away from me, where I drive every day, exactly this happened this last weekend, works to one side (actually on the pavement) of a 3-way mini-roundabout had full 4-way TTls put up (4th stage for pedestrians crossing), started Friday mid-morning, doubtless as an "emergency", work stopped 3pm Friday of course through until Monday morning, the 4-way TTLs causing gross delays to all, including buses. Today, Wednesday, the works are still there but have been re-barriered not to impinge on the carriageway, only on the pavement. Someone will have gone down and given the subcontractor what for, which likely went something like this :

"This is not acceptable at all. Gross delays to all traffic".
"Emergency works mate, innit".
"No, you started mid-morning Friday, knocked off after lunch, nothing done all weekend. That's not an emergency".
"Waiting on client parts".
"When are they coming ?"
"Dunno. Maybe next week".
"OK, backfill it and close up until the parts arrive".
"You must be f---ing joking mate".
"Not at all. Start ordering the backfill now".
" 'ere, Eric, can we push the barriers back to the kerbline?"
[Eric] "Yeah ... but the TTLs are giving us £120 a day margin. The October bonuses come through just in time for Christmas. Who's this bloke you're talking to?".
"Don't worry, just get them pushed them back".

Been there, done that ...

LoopyUpholland
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Re: Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by LoopyUpholland » Thu Oct 28, 2021 16:59

It is not acceptable for works that aren't at all on the road to have TTLs.

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FosseWay
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Re: Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by FosseWay » Thu Oct 28, 2021 17:22

LoopyUpholland wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 16:59
It is not acceptable for works that aren't at all on the road to have TTLs.
That depends. If they are on the pavement then it is probably necessary to provide some way for pedestrians to get round them, generally by coning off part of the road. If the length of works, visibility from each end, weight of traffic etc. mean that TTLs are needed as a result, then they're needed.

On the other hand, you do get situations where obstructions are caused - generally by signage rather than lights - for work that is neither on the roadway nor on the pavement, such as grass cutting or excavations on a verge. If the work requires equipment to be parked/stored on the road or pavement, then the above applies. But if it really is all off the road, do I as a road user really need to know about it, especially if the method of providing the information introduces additional risk in itself by getting in the way of the flow of traffic? (Bonus points if said signage preferentially blocks the cycle path and/or pavement.)

Put another way, if the council grass cutting team need signage when they're mowing without using the road in any way, why doesn't a private individual need it when mowing their lawn alongside the road?
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jnty
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Re: Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by jnty » Thu Oct 28, 2021 19:25

In a similar vein it's a bit frustrating when the inside lane of a 20mph urban road, which is usually obstructed by parking and/or loading, suddenly requires at least three pavement-blocking warning signs when it's obstructed by roadworks instead.

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multiraider2
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Re: Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by multiraider2 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 19:33

Oh yes the warning signs are another aspect of this. This one has the due warnings of road narrows and traffic signals back up the road. As you say, the hole in the road often takes up no more room than the car or van that would always be parked there instead.
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DB617
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Re: Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by DB617 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:33

WHBM wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:11
Utilities contractors always like erecting traffic signals, even where give-and-take would be more appropriate, because they come as a separate Schedule of Rates item on the charging they do to their client. particularly for a two day work job, started on Friday and finished on Monday, where you get four days of billing for TTLs which are charged through the weekend.

Just in case you think this is my hyperbole, a couple of minutes away from me, where I drive every day, exactly this happened this last weekend, works to one side (actually on the pavement) of a 3-way mini-roundabout had full 4-way TTls put up (4th stage for pedestrians crossing), started Friday mid-morning, doubtless as an "emergency", work stopped 3pm Friday of course through until Monday morning, the 4-way TTLs causing gross delays to all, including buses. Today, Wednesday, the works are still there but have been re-barriered not to impinge on the carriageway, only on the pavement. Someone will have gone down and given the subcontractor what for, which likely went something like this :

"This is not acceptable at all. Gross delays to all traffic".
"Emergency works mate, innit".
"No, you started mid-morning Friday, knocked off after lunch, nothing done all weekend. That's not an emergency".
"Waiting on client parts".
"When are they coming ?"
"Dunno. Maybe next week".
"OK, backfill it and close up until the parts arrive".
"You must be f---ing joking mate".
"Not at all. Start ordering the backfill now".
" 'ere, Eric, can we push the barriers back to the kerbline?"
[Eric] "Yeah ... but the TTLs are giving us £120 a day margin. The October bonuses come through just in time for Christmas. Who's this bloke you're talking to?".
"Don't worry, just get them pushed them back".

Been there, done that ...
Yet again the incentive to make a profit, combined with human nature, creates a bungling, inefficient system delivered by otherwise competent people. There can't be many moral scruples within these companies.

WHBM
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Posts: 8510
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: Traffic Lights on already restricted estate roads

Post by WHBM » Sat Oct 30, 2021 17:58

DB617 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:33


Yet again the incentive to make a profit, combined with human nature, creates a bungling, inefficient system delivered by otherwise competent people. There can't be many moral scruples within these companies.
The surveyor on the job is given a target by the Commercial Director. It is to deliver a margin of say £50k per month across their jobs. That's it. No guidance of how to achieve it, what is acceptable/not. So one, honest, surveyor makes £30k, another £50k, another £70k. The one who delivered £30k is fired, and replaced. The one who made £50k is told, aggressively, they have "just" scraped through, and to shadow the £70k surveyor, the only one who got a margin bonus for Christmas, in their own time, for how to deliver margin. This includes, though not explicitly stated, how to pull the wool over the eyes of the client in circumstances where they are unlikely to look.

The Commercial Director is likewise given what for at the board meeting for having people who, on average, only minimally make the targets. The board meeting only looks at the financial results, nothing to do with how the jobs are going. The targets are set by the Chairman, in conjunction with the principal shareholders. The principal shareholders, especially their Investments Director, have invested in the company purely for financial returns. The shareholders are pension companies, investing the monies of you and me; when we look at our pension returns it's all down to percentage figures, which pension company does the best, nothing else.

So if you want to see those who drive the moral scruples ... look in the mirror.

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