M25 junction 28 improvements

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jackal
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by jackal »

The DCO determination was due today. The SoS has pushed it back to 16 May.

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... n=overview
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by BF2142 »

Another 5 months to make a decision :roll: :roll:
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jervi
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by jervi »

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-work ... rovements/

Looks Like the Secretary of State for Transport has woken up from a coma with the second DCO granted in a week.
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jackal
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by jackal »

General arrangement is here:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf

While it's a good basic idea the geometry is actually pretty disgusting...
qwertyK
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by qwertyK »

jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 17:26 General arrangement is here:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf

While it's a good basic idea the geometry is actually pretty disgusting...
Will the A12 eastbound under/approaching the Brook Street Bridge still be just one lane?

I also find it a wasted opportunnity that the A12 and the roundabout itself is not being improved on the westbound side. No point having this lovely new link road if you're dumping three lanes of motorway traffic onto a D2 1960s A road.

I wonder now if half of the traffic is removed from the roundabout, they will remove the traffic lights or at least fix them seeing as they seem to break every month.
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Bryn666
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 17:26 General arrangement is here:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf

While it's a good basic idea the geometry is actually pretty disgusting...
That loop is going to cause several crashes. Who in their right mind puts a sharp curve first? The transition from high speed to low speed should be done much more gradually than that. The drainage pond could have been rotated and a smooth curve loop provided. I am amazed an RSA has not seemingly picked that up.
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qwertyK
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by qwertyK »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:30
jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 17:26 General arrangement is here:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf

While it's a good basic idea the geometry is actually pretty disgusting...
That loop is going to cause several crashes. Who in their right mind puts a sharp curve first? The transition from high speed to low speed should be done much more gradually than that. The drainage pond could have been rotated and a smooth curve loop provided. I am amazed an RSA has not seemingly picked that up.
I imagine it might be a lower speed limit than NSL like on the loops from the M11
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by Bryn666 »

qwertyK wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:31
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:30
jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 17:26 General arrangement is here:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf

While it's a good basic idea the geometry is actually pretty disgusting...
That loop is going to cause several crashes. Who in their right mind puts a sharp curve first? The transition from high speed to low speed should be done much more gradually than that. The drainage pond could have been rotated and a smooth curve loop provided. I am amazed an RSA has not seemingly picked that up.
I imagine it might be a lower speed limit than NSL like on the loops from the M11
The M11 slips are advisory 30s and that doesn't stop numerous people rolling their vehicles over. The M11's excuse is it was designed in the 1960s when we didn't know any better.
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jervi
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by jervi »

qwertyK wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:31
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:30
jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 17:26 General arrangement is here:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf

While it's a good basic idea the geometry is actually pretty disgusting...
That loop is going to cause several crashes. Who in their right mind puts a sharp curve first? The transition from high speed to low speed should be done much more gradually than that. The drainage pond could have been rotated and a smooth curve loop provided. I am amazed an RSA has not seemingly picked that up.
I imagine it might be a lower speed limit than NSL like on the loops from the M11
Proposed speed limit 50mph. That does seem too fast for the first kink of a bend.
https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf
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Bryn666
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by Bryn666 »

jervi wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:40
qwertyK wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:31
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:30

That loop is going to cause several crashes. Who in their right mind puts a sharp curve first? The transition from high speed to low speed should be done much more gradually than that. The drainage pond could have been rotated and a smooth curve loop provided. I am amazed an RSA has not seemingly picked that up.
I imagine it might be a lower speed limit than NSL like on the loops from the M11
Proposed speed limit 50mph. That does seem too fast for the first kink of a bend.
https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf
The M62-M57 loop at Tarbock manages to have a radius of about 180m and be NSL (with an advisory 50) - this Brook Street loop looks almost double that yet manages to have the horizontal alignment of a string of spaghetti thrown at some paper by a toddler. What exactly are NH paying people for again and why are they signing this nonsense off?
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Chris5156
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by Chris5156 »

qwertyK wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:10
jackal wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 17:26 General arrangement is here:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... _plans.pdf
Will the A12 eastbound under/approaching the Brook Street Bridge still be just one lane?
The plan Jackal linked to shows:
- A12 eastbound drops one lane to the exit slip to Brook Street roundabout
- The new loop adds a lane when it joins the A12 eastbound
- Two lanes under the roundabout
- A tiger tail merge where the sliproad from the roundabout joins
I wonder now if half of the traffic is removed from the roundabout, they will remove the traffic lights or at least fix them seeing as they seem to break every month.
The lights might be refurbished but they are definitely staying - again, the plan Jackal linked to clearly shows all the stop lines on the roundabout.
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JonB2028
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by JonB2028 »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:30 That loop is going to cause several crashes. Who in their right mind puts a sharp curve first? The transition from high speed to low speed should be done much more gradually than that. The drainage pond could have been rotated and a smooth curve loop provided. I am amazed an RSA has not seemingly picked that up.
CD122 para 5.11 precludes curves of same hand with reducing radii. I guess the logic (perhaps that's a stretch for the DMRB) is that if the initial radii is larger you'll assume it continues and the tightening will catch you out, whereas if the tightest bit is first and obvious you should modulate your speed for that.

Having said that it does look odd, rather extreme. A bigger radius and keeping the near straight section and nose location would push the loop outward to the north, but it's not immediately obvious why that couldn't have been done.
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by darkcape »

The new northbound/anticlockwise M25 on-slip crosses the loop at such a shallow skew I imagine the bridge will be of monstrous proportions similar to the A46 at Warwick or the A428 at Girton.
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by qwertyK »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:36
qwertyK wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:31
Bryn666 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 21:30

That loop is going to cause several crashes. Who in their right mind puts a sharp curve first? The transition from high speed to low speed should be done much more gradually than that. The drainage pond could have been rotated and a smooth curve loop provided. I am amazed an RSA has not seemingly picked that up.
I imagine it might be a lower speed limit than NSL like on the loops from the M11
The M11 slips are advisory 30s and that doesn't stop numerous people rolling their vehicles over. The M11's excuse is it was designed in the 1960s when we didn't know any better.
Surely that junction wouldn't have been built until the 80s though when the M25 was opened?
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by qwertyK »

Also, how many years is this expected to take to build?
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KeithW
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by KeithW »

qwertyK wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 08:02 Surely that junction wouldn't have been built until the 80s though when the M25 was opened?
The last section of the M11 opened in February 1980 from Stump Cross to the A604 as was , now A14 , I know I used it that Easter :)
The first section opened in 1975.
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trickstat
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by trickstat »

KeithW wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 08:24
qwertyK wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 08:02 Surely that junction wouldn't have been built until the 80s though when the M25 was opened?
The last section of the M11 opened in February 1980 from Stump Cross to the A604 as was , now A14 , I know I used it that Easter :)
The first section opened in 1975.
Yes, but I don't think that section of the M25 and the M11/M25 junction opened until about 1983. It's not like the A1(M) /M25 junction which already existed as an A1(M)/A6 junction.
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by Bryn666 »

trickstat wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 08:35
KeithW wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 08:24
qwertyK wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 08:02 Surely that junction wouldn't have been built until the 80s though when the M25 was opened?
The last section of the M11 opened in February 1980 from Stump Cross to the A604 as was , now A14 , I know I used it that Easter :)
The first section opened in 1975.
Yes, but I don't think that section of the M25 and the M11/M25 junction opened until about 1983. It's not like the A1(M) /M25 junction which already existed as an A1(M)/A6 junction.
Correct but the footprint and design of the interchange goes back to the 1960s and the original Ringway 3 plans. It was modified to the whirlpool and design will have been completed as part of the M11 contract as the M11 was left as a D2M under where the M25 would end up despite opening 7 years earlier.
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roadphotos
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by roadphotos »

The M25 junction 28 improvements have been given the go ahead. Construction is expected to start in the autumn.
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Re: M25 junction 28 improvements

Post by qwertyK »

roadphotos wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 13:10 The M25 junction 28 improvements have been given the go ahead. Construction is expected to start in the autumn.
How long can we expect it to take?
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