A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

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Jim606
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A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Jim606 »

I recently drove the A11 between the A14 & A47 Norwich southern bypass. I knew the remaining sections had been dualed & some roundabouts remained, particularly at either end of the Thetford bypass. However, I didn't realise that they were not alone. I guess there are about five or six? Are there any plans to remove any these over the coming years?

Prior to completion of the A11 schemes I am sure Norwich had the distinction of being one of the largest places (if not the largest?) without a 'complete' dual carriageway link to other places in the UK? The roundabouts seemed like a barrier to 'expressway status', but perhaps we shouldn't mention that? Any thoughts?
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by thomas417 »

Thetford's a isolated problem which will take major investment to solve the 5 junctions of this stretch but agree the two roundabouts further out (Five ways and the other one towards Norwich) could be quite easily be made free flow and should be done as soon as possible. With these gone Thetford would then quickly be seen as the missing link and pressure would grow to get this final stretch improved.

I see a solution here being to reduce the number of junctions down to 2 then making these free flow completing the link to the M11.
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Truvelo
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Truvelo »

The one near Attleborough was to be a GSJ when the section between there and Thetford was dualled but it was changed to a roundabout at the 11th hour. Does anyone know why?
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Jim606
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Jim606 »

Truvelo wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 14:24 The one near Attleborough was to be a GSJ when the section between there and Thetford was dualled but it was changed to a roundabout at the 11th hour. Does anyone know why?
I would guess to save money or placate objectors?
thomas417 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:56 Thetford's a isolated problem which will take major investment to solve the 5 junctions of this stretch but agree the two roundabouts further out (Five ways and the other one towards Norwich) could be quite easily be made free flow and should be done as soon as possible. With these gone Thetford would then quickly be seen as the missing link and pressure would grow to get this final stretch improved. I see a solution here being to reduce the number of junctions down to 2 then making these free flow completing the link to the M11.
Yes, although now fully dualed, this section of the A11 reminded me of the A1 before the 6 roundabouts were GSJ'd several years ago.
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jackal
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by jackal »

Fiveways is in the pipeline for RIS3. Nothing else is in the programme.

The silliest thing at Thetford is actually the GSJ, which makes it hard to grade separate the adjacent rbt. Should have just been a bridge.
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by camflyer »

Fiveways really should have been sorted out properly when they did the dualling of the A11 there about 5 years ago. It could only have been a cost issue.
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 15:11 Fiveways is in the pipeline for RIS3. Nothing else is in the programme.

The silliest thing at Thetford is actually the GSJ, which makes it hard to grade separate the adjacent rbt. Should have just been a bridge.
Only in the UK would a piddling unclassified road that simply didn't need slip roads at all get a parclo whilst a more strategic A road gets a roundabout.
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thomas417
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by thomas417 »

Had a quick go at what I'd do at Thetford, reducing the number of junctions down to 2 GSJ's (red dots) serving both halves of the town. Surely enough access points for a town this size and provides sufficient spacing between junctions for a road with Expressway ambitions.

Removed are the existing at grade roundabouts with the A134/B1107 and the A1075 Norwich Road with the A11 flying under or over these roads and slips removed from the low standard GSJ with Croxton Road.

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Truvelo
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Truvelo »

The Norwich Road junction could be a LILO so traffic from Norwich entering Thetford can still use the existing road.
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Al__S »

does the Fiveways potential scheme also include grade separation of the junctions between there and Red Lodge?
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Burwellian »

thomas417 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 17:49 Had a quick go at what I'd do at Thetford, reducing the number of junctions down to 2 GSJ's (red dots) serving both halves of the town. Surely enough access points for a town this size and provides sufficient spacing between junctions for a road with Expressway ambitions.
Say you're heading from Bury SE to Swaffham... How would you like to get from the A134 to the A134?
Could do a new build single carriageway alongside the A11 perhaps?
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Big L »

Burwellian wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 19:19
thomas417 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 17:49 Had a quick go at what I'd do at Thetford, reducing the number of junctions down to 2 GSJ's (red dots) serving both halves of the town. Surely enough access points for a town this size and provides sufficient spacing between junctions for a road with Expressway ambitions.
Say you're heading from Bury SE to Swaffham... How would you like to get from the A134 to the A134?
Could do a new build single carriageway alongside the A11 perhaps?
Redesignate the A134 number to London Road. Sorted.
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Truvelo
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Truvelo »

Big L wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 19:35
Burwellian wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 19:19 Say you're heading from Bury SE to Swaffham... How would you like to get from the A134 to the A134?
Could do a new build single carriageway alongside the A11 perhaps?
Redesignate the A134 number to London Road. Sorted.
Or this which avoids the need to drive into town and back out
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skiddaw05
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by skiddaw05 »

Removing direct access from the A1075 to the A11 could create problems as traffic from mid Norfolk, including Dereham and Watton, would have to go (almost) into Thetford and back up the A1066 past various industrial estates to head to London etc. Also there is a lot of housing development ongoing on the A1075 between the town and the A11 so Norwich bound traffic from here would also have to head back towards the town and use the A1066.

The B1107 junction is perhaps less of an issue if the southern link suggested for the A134 was to be built* but it would still mean Brandon to Norwich traffic having to go in and back out of Thetford.

It's the A11/A134(N) /A1066 roundbout which causes the main problems at the moment, the other roundabouts seem to cope reasonably well. But if this junction was GSJ'd I expect the delays would be transferred elsewhere as happened after the Elveden bypass was opened, before this there wasn't much congestion at this roundabout as traffic was being held up further south.

(*regrdless of any improvements to the Thetford bypass this needs to be done anyway as there is a southbound weight restiction on the A134 from the B1107 roundabout with HGVs sent along the A11 (and ex-A11) to an unclassified road between Elveden and Barnham)
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Re: A11 roundabouts towards Norwich

Post by Mapper89062 »

So it seems that improving the A11 Fiveways roundabout is now on, at a cost of £101m, which ought to pay for some grade separation, though I'm not quite sure what the plan is - it depends on whether all the service areas need to stay and how important local access is.

Here's my design, which utilises as much of the existing layout as possible, provides full local access, and maintains most of the service areas with just one bridge:
IMG_20220519_180130.jpg
Burger King and the petrol station just fit between the new and old A11 alignments - Travelodge would have to be demolished and relocated, for which I left the stub on the eastern LAR as an access point. An additional bridge might be needed to replace the reserve gaps at the other end of the Barton Mills bypass.
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