How would you convert the A1 to motorway??

[Robert Kilcoyne]

In the Scottish Borders it is already D2 from Edinburgh to North of Torness. Just 22 miles to upgrade to D2 to reach the Border. The Dunbar roundabouts are annoying, but it's not that busy..... A freeflow A1(N)-A720(W) and vice versa would be nice......

An offline bypass of Grantshouse would probably be needed as the East Coast Main Line runs next to the A1, it should otherwise be possible to upgrade the existing A1 to D2 between Grantshouse and Houndwood, and to D2 between Houndwood and the Eyemouth turn. The major challenge would be between Burnmouth and the Border, as there would be no room for an online upgrade to D2 as the land to the west is quite hilly and there is a very steep drop to the North Sea to the east. A new route would be needed, probably starting from near the Eyemouth or Ayton turns, and continuing west of the current A1 to rejoin the current route at Lamberton.

[Owain]

By calling it A1(M) and not being so precious about the M in brackets, because even as it is, it's still better than M10 or M100 or whatever silly nonsense people like to think would be best.

E15.

I see nothing silly about a completed long-distance strategic motorway having an Mx number.

Indeed - what is silly is not using an M number for a completed motorway route!

Yeah, it’s not so much about the number as the route?? Like... D3M??

D3M all the way from Old Craighall to Potters Bar. Call it M1 north of Leeds (or Doncaster) and M10 south of that.

- Build a D4 ring road from M1 J3 near Elstree to connect with the sharp turn in the A12 at Stratford. GSJ it. Call it A150.

- Start the M10 on this road, just south of Barnet. D3M all the way to Doncaster.

- Redirect the M1 along the M18 and turn it north at Doncaster (rebuild the interchange as a free-flow GSJ) and continue as D3M to Newcastle

- Renumber the former M1 past Sheffield and Leeds as M68

- complete the M67 to meet the M68

- build M64 from Huddersfield to York, looping north of Leeds and meeting a completed M65

- M19 Newcastle outer ring road

- M7 Edinburgh to Newcastle (could probably get away with D2M)

Put Bryn in charge of the routes, and Truvelo in charge of the GSJs.

[Vierwielen]

There is the legal technicality of ensuring that anybody (including cyclists, pedestrians, horses etc) who currently use that part of the Queen's Highway known as the "A1" can continue to do so. The easiest way to do that is to build a "B" road alongside the current A1, call those bits the "A1" and the current A1 is renamed the Mxx. This must of course be done is such a way as to ensure that no accesses from the Queen's Highway are lost.

[Osthagen]

There is the legal technicality of ensuring that anybody (including cyclists, pedestrians, horses etc) who currently use that part of the Queen's Highway known as the "A1" can continue to do so. The easiest way to do that is to build a "B" road alongside the current A1, call those bits the "A1" and the current A1 is renamed the Mxx. This must of course be done is such a way as to ensure that no accesses from the Queen's Highway are lost.

South of Doncaster, the A1 number should be bestowed upon the adjacent LAR (non-primary)

But from Blyth (near Doncaster) onwards, I’d send the A1 number up the A614 and A638 to Doncaster town centre, then up the A19 all the way to Seaton Burn, where the A1 would continue as normal to Edinburgh.

Either that, or send the A1 number along the LAR as far as Dishforth, from which point I’d send the A1 number up the A168 and then the A19.

[exiled]

Put Bryn in charge of the routes, and Truvelo in charge of the GSJs.

That's the budget blown!

Are there still sections with residential frontage on them? They would be first on my target list for upgrade.

[Osthagen]

Are there still sections with residential frontage on them?

Yes.

[skiddaw05]

Wild card time!

The M1 continues as the M1 beyond the A1(M) (as suggested above somewhere) ideally to Edinburgh but at least to Newcastle On Tyne, and south of the M1 the A1 is simply the A1 throughout as a HQDC (with any necessary improvements to the existing road to get it to this standard) - ie get rid of the blue lines altogether and make these sections special roads if need be.

[Osthagen]

Wild card time!

The M1 continues as the M1 beyond the A1(M) (as suggested above somewhere) ideally to Edinburgh but at least to Newcastle On Tyne, and south of the M1 the A1 is simply the A1 throughout as a HQDC (with any necessary improvements to the existing road to get it to this standard) - ie get rid of the blue lines altogether and make these sections special roads if need be.

I think you mean Newcastle upon Tyne…?

I agree with you on extending the M1 (though I’d redirect it up the M18, then up the A1), but I don’t see why downgrading the A1(M) is necessary?

[roadtester]

Q: How would you convert the A1 to motorway?

A: More quickly.

As I've said before, it's taken over half a century to blue-line about half of it. I'm sure it will all get done eventually - not as part of some grand plan but in the piecemeal fashion we've seen before. I reckon it will have taken about a century by the time it's completed.

No person alive will have witnessed the project from start to finish. Its bigger than any of us!

[Osthagen]

Q: How would you convert the A1 to motorway?

A: More quickly.

As I've said before, it's taken over half a century to blue-line about half of it. I'm sure it will all get done eventually - not as part of some grand plan but in the piecemeal fashion we've seen before. I reckon it will have taken about a century by the time it's completed.

No person alive will have witnessed the project from start to finish. Its bigger than any of us!

Sums up British roadbuilding perfectly.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if this were any other western country, the A1 would have been completely replaced by motorway by the late 1990s at the very latest.

[Chris5156]

It was floated many years ago - convert the remaining A1 sections to A1(M). There were very detailed proposals for Stotfold to Brampton that nearly entered the planning pool - but those ones are fairly clear cut/offline upgrade.

What I’d be interested to know is, how would you go about doing the rest?? Leaving money aside as a consideration...

I'd dig out the detailed proposals that were drawn up for other parts of the route between Peterborough and Doncaster, for a start - several sections reached consultation stage, or were at least ready to go out to consultation, before being cancelled.

I’m thinking a lot of the road would need to be offline -even the Grantham and Stamford bypasses (because they are the main bypasses for those towns, it would be fairly difficult to keep them open whilst converting them).

I'm intrigued by this idea. The A1 has been kept open while being converted to motorway throughout West and North Yorkshire in the last 20 years. It's not easy but it's eminently possible.

[punyXpress]

For cheapness: allocate a few half gallon cans of BLUE paint and amend all the "As on signs.
Job jobbed.

[Rob590]

My take on a few of your suggestions:

[*]I'd upgrade to D2 through Northumberland

Marvellous. But what do you propose happens to the road in the Scottish Borders?

But for the D2 itself, do you propose a high-quality grade-separated D2 or something of a lower standard?

Yes, I should have clarified Northumberland and in the Borders up to current D2. I'd suggest something like the A19 in County Durham would do: largely grade separated but with a few small at grade junctions, particularly where these would require lengthy access roads on dry rural stretches.

[*]Washington - Darlington is just about acceptable at the moment as D2M, though D3M would be lovely. Making this smart would increase capacity adequately for the foreseeable future

If any of it should be made D3M first, it should be the section between Junctions 62 (Durham) and 63 (Chester-le-Street).

Really? I live ~3 mins drive off junction 62 and it has never seemed an abnormally busy stretch of motorway to me. I have family in Nottingham and Derby and find delays and congestion to be much more frequent on the A1 south of the M62 than round here.

[si404]

Reality time...

Since the removal of the roundabouts between Peterborough and Doncaster the A1 has become a much more reliable route.

The big trouble spot is the M62 to M18, fix this before worrying about the bits to the south.

Baldock to Alconbury is a rubbish length but given the M1 and M11 are either side of it filling it is just making a map look pretty.

Peterborough - Doncaster: yes, though there's still grounds for some safety improvements: Peterborough to Stamford could do with a new alignment and junction changes in the medium term, so perhaps A1(M) extending a little bit to deal with South Midlands growth area traffic and all that.

M62 to M18: absolutely, this has to be the priority as it is part of the London-Newcastle route.

Baldock-Alconbury: the M62 to M18 bit has the M18 and M1 closer than the Beds/Hunts section of the A1 has the M11 and M1. There's also serious safety issues that would warrant upgrading with a new alignment (I can't see D3M south of Black Cat though without lots and lots of work in Herts). The big problem is attracting traffic off these alternate routes by the blue-line effect - it's not only the A1 sections that means that London-The NORTH traffic is encouraged to go via Cambridge these days*, but the A1(M) in Herts which would be less pressed if it just took the commuter motorway traffic and not the nationally significant traffic.

*Though the A14 planners needed persuading that the A14 is a major north-south route between Cambridge and Huntingdon. Really, given their traffic figures, they should have TOTSOed the A14 so the mainline went to the A1, rather than towards Kettering. Still, at least they removed the loop-ramp for northbound traffic!

[Osthagen]

Really? I live ~3 mins drive off junction 62 and it has never seemed an abnormally busy stretch of motorway to me. I have family in Nottingham and Derby and find delays and congestion to be much more frequent on the A1 south of the M62 than round here.

It isn't the most congested stretch of motorway in the world. But I personally have found the A1(M) north of J62 to be busier than other parts of the road through County Durham and North Yorkshire.

[WHBM]

Are there still sections with residential frontage on them? They would be first on my target list for upgrade.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.12072 ... 312!8i6656

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.11964 ... 312!8i6656

[Gav]

A1 north from Newcastle through to Edinburgh ?

Is it needed ? A66 upgrade this to take care of the North South traffic - no need to worry about the A1 North of Newcastle. Id improve it but not to D3M. Also there would be some desire to improve the links to the borders. HQ DC from Newcastle in a north westerly direction and then link with the A68 and plough north to Edinburgh.

Newcastle bypass upgraded to full motorway.

[Osthagen]

- Redirect the M1 along the M18 and turn it north at Doncaster (rebuild the interchange as a free-flow GSJ) and continue as D3M to Newcastle

- Renumber the former M1 past Sheffield and Leeds as M68

- complete the M67 to meet the M68

- build M64 from Huddersfield to York, looping north of Leeds and meeting a completed M65

Without wanting to take this thread to far off topic, I'd actually use the M64 number for the 'dogleg' of M1 between Sheffield and Aberford. I'd consider making the M621 accessible from the north and renumbering the part north of Rothwell as M621.

The M68 would be the Leeds to Kendal motorway.

[NICK 647063]

I think to keep it simple and also keep costs down I would simply renumber the A1 north of the M1 at hook Moor to M1 I would then renumber the whole LAR to A1 with a little gap between J49 and J50 where no LAR was built, I would then send it up it’s old route along what is the A167.

As for south of hook Moor I would just simply upgrade the lot but keep it as the A1(M), to change it to anything else would cost a huge amount to change all signs along the route and on surrounding roads and for no benefit!

[roadtester]

Since the removal of the roundabouts between Peterborough and Doncaster the A1 has become a much more reliable route.

This is one of the key facts, I think.

The Blyth > Peterborough GSJs were incredibly effective in improving the whole of the middle section of the A1. According to this document from the RAC Foundation assessing various road schemes in 2009, they had a staggeringly high BCR of 20.5, the highest of any of the schemes in the study:

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac ... report.pdf

The "problem" is that these improvements have been so effective at producing a "good enough" outcome that it must be difficult to justify a further upgrade to full motorway standard on this stretch in the near future, even though a variety of blackspots/inappropriate accesses and so on still exist.

Personally, I think it would be great if a way could be found to blue-line as far as possible online to something like the same standard as the Doncaster by-pass or some of the recent Scottish D2(M)s, but that seems unlikely on recent form.

The other thing is that the A1(M) itself is hardly homogenous - the bits being built now are completely different in character and standard to the Doncaster by-pass, which was opened 56 years ago in 1961.

Assume that the remaining sections of the A1 are upgraded to motorway in the next 20-30 years (probably a bit optimistic) and different sections of the A1(M) will try in age by eighty or more years.

One of the things people like about the A1/A1(M) is the variety - but even if it is one day all upgraded to A1(M) it will still maintain much of that variety in standards, width, design and so on because it has all taken so long.