Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

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orudge
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by orudge »

Euan wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2019 22:58 I'm sure there could be plenty of job opportunities for the wider area from a business park, but it would clearly be foolish to build one at Cleanhill with the number of incidents at the roundabout. I think it would work out much better if it were to be established next to a different junction such as the A944 interchange or at Craibstone with reasonable access.
To be fair, there are already business parks next to both of those interchanges! If there’s one thing Aberdeen doesn’t need right now given the number of vacant premises on the market, it’s more business parks...

There have recently been planning applications going in for new services on the A944 (a new petrol station plus fast food/drive through outlets), as well as a McDonalds and Starbucks next to where the new football stadium will be. The road is already very busy now during rush hour - the queues heading westbound to the AWPR can be significant at 5pm - so I dread to think what it’ll be like when there’s a Wednesday night match on and cars are also queuing to get into McDonalds!
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c2R
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by c2R »

Some legislation published today:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2019/168 - The Motorways Traffic (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2019
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2019/167 - The A956 Trunk Road (Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route) (Cleanhill to Charleston) (Prohibitions and Restrictions) Regulations 2019
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2019/166 - The A90 Trunk Road (Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route) (Stonehaven to Blackdog) (Prohibitions and Restrictions) Regulations 2019
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orudge
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by orudge »

Aw, so they did remember to make an exception in the Motorways act to make the A90 officially not a motorway. :(

Meanwhile, there are no plans to alter the AWPR signage (“A90 North” instead of “Peterhead” etc), as apparently there isn’t enough space on the signs to put more information!

Personally I don’t see why “Peterhead A90” wouldn’t fit, omitting Fraserburgh perhaps.

Also more complaints about the A944 junction - there are regularly long queues heading off the A90 southbound at 5pm (and I think the same heading northbound in the morning). I noticed recently some “queues likely” temporary signs have been placed on the mainline. No doubt signalisation of the roundabout is just around the corner.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Euan »

orudge wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 09:43 Also more complaints about the A944 junction - there are regularly long queues heading off the A90 southbound at 5pm (and I think the same heading northbound in the morning). I noticed recently some “queues likely” temporary signs have been placed on the mainline. No doubt signalisation of the roundabout is just around the corner.
Clearly the temporary "queues likely" signs would indicate that there are already plans to improve the roundabout. Unfortunately leaving the A90 at Newton and passing around Kingswells instead would not really help for Westhill traffic as it would still require a visit to the Kingsford roundabout. There might be traffic from the A96 choosing to use the AWPR followed by the A944 to reach places like Summerhill and Mastrick on the western side of the city which could save some time by leaving the A90 at Newton.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by orudge »

I regularly see the new 747/757 bus services sitting in traffic at 5pm using the A944 junction to go north (or coming from the north) on their way to/from the P&R. I’m not sure why they don’t use the North Kingswells junction and the entrance/exit from the P&R on the old Kingswells bypass (C89C) instead - at peak times at least I’d have thought it’d be quicker than the A944 queues. (That said, I’m not sure what the queues on the C89C approaching the Kingswells roundabout are like at that time of day.)
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Gordon_M »

orudge wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 23:30 I regularly see the new 747/757 bus services sitting in traffic at 5pm using the A944 junction to go north (or coming from the north) on their way to/from the P&R. I’m not sure why they don’t use the North Kingswells junction and the entrance/exit from the P&R on the old Kingswells bypass (C89C) instead - at peak times at least I’d have thought it’d be quicker than the A944 queues. (That said, I’m not sure what the queues on the C89C approaching the Kingswells roundabout are like at that time of day.)
That sounds like it would make sense, and they could do that to get off southbound or get back on northbound, but of course they would still have to struggle through the A944 roundabout to get to/from the P&R for the other leg of the trip.

I think the two A944 roundabouts at Kingswells and the AWPR may become the "new Haudegain" just because of poor planning and the sheer volume of traffic heading into that mile of the A944 during peak periods. If they put traffic lights at the A944 junction it will just back up towards Westhill and the Lang Stracht ( or more than it already is ... )
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by c2R »

Here's some more legislation, primarily concerned with not allowing people to turn the wrong way at junctions and add speed limits at junctions. Presumably again because it's a specal road but not a motorway:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2019/218 - The A956 Trunk Road (Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route) (Cleanhill to Charleston) (40mph Speed Limit) Order 2019
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2019/219 - The A90 Trunk Road (Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route and Balmedie to Tipperty) (Stonehaven to Tipperty) (Prohibition, 30mph and 40mph Speed Limit) Order 2019
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2019/220 - The A92 Trunk Road (Stonehaven to Charleston) (Prohibition and 40mph Speed Limit) Order 2019
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Chris_533976 »

Was just over in Scotland and got the chance to have a burn on the Aberdeen bypass. Nice bit of road, but my god those junctions are dreadful.

The A90/A96 roundabout mashup is just pants, but the worst is when coming south onto the Stonehaven bypass. Through a roundabout and then a right turn at traffic lights. Rubbish. And the A596/A90 junction is just a roundabout. Its all very silly.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Altnabreac »

Chris_533976 wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 17:40 Was just over in Scotland and got the chance to have a burn on the Aberdeen bypass. Nice bit of road, but my god those junctions are dreadful.

The A90/A96 roundabout mashup is just pants, but the worst is when coming south onto the Stonehaven bypass. Through a roundabout and then a right turn at traffic lights. Rubbish. And the A596/A90 junction is just a roundabout. Its all very silly.
Handy for getting to Workington though. :wink:
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by orudge »

The P&J and BBC have news that the city roads re-signing is due to start before the end of the year. It includes a sample "before and after":

Image

Folk had better learn their road numbers rather than look for places like Peterhead and Inverness when they come to Aberdeen! And the poor old B9119 has apparently been demoted between the A92 and the A944, at least as far as this sign is concerned. :roll: I guess the alternative would be something like (excuse my atrocious MS Paint skills):
roundabout.png
roundabout.png (47.74 KiB) Viewed 4151 times
which would still be quite cluttered, but somehow seems a bit more pleasing to me!
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Johnathan404 »

"(A90 North & South)" :hurl:

And while it is correct, "City centre (W)" looks awful.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by DB617 »

Seconded; A90 North and South is just wrong in every single way. I'd hate to be a sign engineer living anywhere near Aberdeen very shortly.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Ronnie »

All the signage associated with the AWPR is really truly awful in every way possible. It’s like they’ve subcontracted it to a bunch of 6 year olds.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Bryn666 »

(A90) would have been sufficient.

The problem is big consultants, and I think this was AECOM, don't give a fig about sign design. They see it as an annoyance way down the schedule of rates and something you can design after the rest of everything else.

At no point will consideration have been given to a usable wayfinding strategy but some cretin will have said "we can replace X number of signs at Y price" and watched the fees come rolling in.

Their excuse? "Everyone uses sat nav anyway".
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Gav »

Drove the bypass the other day, really its okay as a bypass but how it fits into the other road network is at best described as haphazard....

First encounter, On the A90 and had to turn off the A90 to stay on the A90 and head north. Then a roundabout where I crossed the southbound flow. Like really ? will the dominant flow not be the A90 so why this mess ?

Northbound on the A90 leads up to the roundabout with the A956. At grade. Like really ? why ? this should have been grade separated.

I then came up to my junction that id to leave at, the A96, what a mess that is, why ? What would it have been to make a 3 level stack here ? Then the A90 continues round to another turn off to stay on at the terminal junction....

Crazy.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Euan »

Apparently the signs are supposed to make the centre of Aberdeen appear more as a destination rather than somewhere to drive past, so the bypass is clearly doing its job!

It’s worth noting that at both the Blackdog and Stonehaven junctions the A92 towards Aberdeen forms the through route whereas you have to leave the road to continue on the A90 bypass, so some less alert drivers may end up in the city unintentionally.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Bryn666 »

Given the geography of NE Scotland it is a fair assumption that most journeys will be headed into Aberdeen somewhere so the TOTSOs weren't an issue - apart from the fact they're designed to be the least functional things ever.

The Stonehaven end having flows cross over is a classic "we don't know how roads work" nonsense designed to save money on not building a left turn slip off the A90.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by B9127 »

Re new signage would some Way Out signs nor be easier :)
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 08:46(A90) would have been sufficient.
Well, quite. The signs on the AWPR don't point out exits for "A96 East and West" because that would, self-evidently, be madness. The only explanation for the decision to consistently and doggedly use "A90 North and South" is that they were designed by someone who didn't understand what they were doing, didn't bother to read TSM (or thought it didn't apply to them), and weren't challenged at any stage to justify their decision - because if they had been it would have become rapidly apparent that it's unjustifiable. And that is just one glaring example of innumerable other silly mistakes and wrongheaded decisions that clutter every individual sign.

AECOM seem to have absolutely fleeced Transport Scotland and Aberdeen City Council out of a lot of money in return for designing an absolute failure of a signage scheme. If anyone at TS or ACC had the knowledge and experience to intelligently review AECOM's work they would have seen that, but one has to assume that they don't.
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Re: Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

Post by jackal »

I know most traffic is likely to go to Aberdeen but you could still argue the mainline should have gone around the bypass to maintain route standard. GSJs are more the exception than the norm on the A90 in to Aberdeen (Blackdog is even the last GSJ heading south).

In fact the new junctions all have unnecessary quirks and should have been something different. As well as the obvious deficiencies at either end and the A96, Goval and Deeside involve weirdly long diversions along link roads. Charlestown replaced a freeflow trumpet with a fully signalised junction on the end of a high speed rural DC. North Kingswells isn't needed at all and creates a weaving risk. South Kingswells is probably the least bad but still there are deficiencies to the "massive roundabout with countless arms" approach - a dumbbell may have been better.

Still, there's no doubt it's a massive improvement overall.
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