Aberdeen Bypass Route Announced

[Gordon_M]

The thrust of the chat seems to be that the Don bridge will need ongoing expensive checks and maintenance. Client considers this is part of the original package deal, Contractor wants paid extra for it as they realise just how expensive this could be going forward.

[Euan]

Are the benefits of the bypass currently being felt at least partially? With the vast majority of the route now open, it wouldn't necessarily be true that the opening of the bypass was "delayed until 2019". Unless of course, you were to take the bypass as a whole and ignore the different opening dates of separate sections.

Traffic heading for the A96 from Stonehaven will not be affected by the delay of the Don Bridge section. However traffic continuing on the A90 north of Aberdeen still doesn't have it easy and I doubt the isolated section between Blackdog and Goval is much use on its own without connecting to the rest of the bypass.

[mehere]

What is it with the Scottish parliament and truly messed up Infrastructure projects .
1st the Trams, years over budget , half the length ( now being extended at further cost. By now ' New lines where due to be open or at start of works , Eg using old FRB outside lane).

2, Borders Rail, half the double track required , based on Beeching style thinking also not built to the best length , Either Terminating at Melrose or better still Hawick ( giving the last leg to completion a very high chance ) , as for Melrose it's maddeningly close .
Could have reused old station and ' improved and moved the road to a better alignment and a better junction to boot, the park and ride could have remained at Tweedbank , that could have been an island as it is now the ' loop , ending just far enough to run an engine or two/three car DMU round . Single track to Melrose . A place unlike Tweedbank that has a fair population.

And now this Bypass over a decade late in starting down to one man who moved anyway!.
By which time costs of things + Brexit and Carrillion.
Also not the public's job to pay extra to constantly fix that bridge , clearly a faulty design from the off and likely bad pre construction groundwork and investigation.
Was / is there something wrong with the stability of the land it's on. ( Deeper piles needed ? Bet it needs under pinned later !)
The contractor should be clobbered hard for this. Just open the Road , fgs.
By the time it's open , it will at this rate have to be resurfaced due to ' life after people ' lack of use , Eg surface ' greening over - if that could happen?.
What are the likely issues if left for say six more months ?.

[Berk]

The thrust of the chat seems to be that the Don bridge will need ongoing expensive checks and maintenance. Client considers this is part of the original package deal, Contractor wants paid extra for it as they realise just how expensive this could be going forward.

Why has this need arisen, why wasn’t it foreseen??

[orudge]

Are the benefits of the bypass currently being felt at least partially?

Oh, most definitely. I can’t say I’ve spoken to anyone who has a bad word to say about it (well, except perhaps for some of my fellow commuters who need to pass through the bypass roundabout on the A944, who now have to queue for up to 10 minutes at home time). Many people have had commutes drastically reduced, queues at places like the Bridge of Dee are much smaller, and it seems to have been a great help. Dyce is the one place that is persistently bad on the traffic reports, but you’ll have people ignoring the official diversion and trying to get from the southern AWPR to the northern section via Dyce Drive, etc, and it’s always been horrendously busy anyway. Hopefully the Don bridge will help relieve Dyce a bit.

What is it with the Scottish parliament and truly messed up Infrastructure projects .
1st the Trams, years over budget , half the length ( now being extended at further cost.

The trams were a City of Edinburgh Council project that spiralled out of control before being taken over by the government, so I don’t think it’s quite fair to blame the government for that one!

2, Borders Rail, half the double track required , based on Beeching style thinking also not built to the best length , Either Terminating at Melrose or better still Hawick ( giving the last leg to completion a very high chance ) , as for Melrose it's maddeningly close .

I don’t particularly know the reasons for it, but my understanding is that it was a bit of an unknown how successful the project would be, and costs had to be kept under control. It’s ended up being more successful than expected, so I think there’s a fair chance it will be extended at some point in the future.

And now this Bypass over a decade late in starting down to one man who moved anyway!

Again, not really the Government’s fault - unfortunate and annoying, but can’t really blame them for that. With regards to the future costs, I would agree with you that given the nature of the contract, the contractors should be responsible.

I have never yet voted for the SNP, but they do appear to have achieved a lot of overdue transport projects (admittedly a number of them not started by them), and I personally appreciate the commitments to the A9 and A96. Some of the projects have had problems, certainly, but road transport is an area where the SNP seem to have done quite well. Of course, this is getting a little off-topic now...

[roadtester]

Surprised nobody has linked to this (author too modest, perhaps!)

https://www.roads.org.uk/blog/whats-wro ... een-bypass

[Berk]

Something similar happened at Tollbar End in Coventry, with the A46 works. HE believed at one point the faults were terminal. But a re-evaluation showed that the bridge was fine after some remedials, the design life wasn’t too adversely affected, and just required a little extra monitoring.

What’s to say the situation won’t be the same here??

[mehere]

Orudge , , thank you for your comments on my post, I do enjoy debate:-).
However with respect , the executive was and did have oversight on 'TIE'.
The Borders rail figures , were a all part of the Story as again it was delayed a good 5 years , because THEY tried some crazy idea of using an already public failed , ' Private ' operator/ infrastructure joint enterprise.( Watch and Learn , West minster ) by initially having the project from usage figures to design in the hands of a ' private contractor'. Finally ' Network Rail' must have gone and proved costs would have made it a failure even with the stunning usage figures .
And so more delays while they oversaw and took ownership.( Legal services etal, delayed it for that process to complete ).
My apologies but I disagree , there was Huge support, including from the ' Peebles campaign, now at the design and ' fly through ' stage , but reliant on the Borders rail.to be built . Trouble is the preferred route for that will mean they will Have to build a second Viaduct to allow double track, and double track , all the way North .( Off topic ) why there wasn't a ' Right out Chord ' to.enter the route past the new TMD at Miller hill. Also executive has some oversight of Transport Transport Scotland , with the deleted double track , it's made a possible direct , Newcastle, York, Doncaster , London service more difficult ( maybe some of those HST'S need to be under their ' Express brand '. That is another example of those at the top loosing control .
And by now it would likely have been at least Electrified, like Alloa ( note the already present foundations covered in blue plastic ).
The executive took credit for a half done railway, there actually was figures, having lived along its route I was Hounorable to meet the group campaigning . The executive Did know it would be over subscribed .plus still off topic ( bear with me, like TIE and those responsible for the Viaduct on the ' new ' A90(E) had to have sent inspections of it along each stage of the build
They have a Duty to the people that any project from.a Doctors Surgery , School or Infrastructure project is fit for purpose and the public purse .

To sit back and not Strongly stand up and refuse to take on maintaining the structure which has early signs of worst case scenario , a rebuild or even replacement needed.
This must NOT be at public expense .

Also slightly off topic , why did the Northern section not be dualled to busy port Townsend , Peterhead.
Not sure if it is rail served but if not it should be a priority to end the Expressway at the Northeast coast.
However agreeing to cover costs on a contractor created ' cock up ' is not in the public interest.

So they imho are very much in part responsible.

Had they not been by now you'd have an enviable Tram network ( possibly less traffic in the centre )
A Railllink to Hawick and statutory processes on for its completion to Carlisle, and Electrification.

Think of it this way for every Billion they lost or allowed to escape the Public purse, you might also have that Bypass , plugged into at the least an over half done A96 expressway .
As Billions have been lost , I'm not sure when they took power .
But I know they were not at the start of the Tram crisis .

[Chris5156]

Also not the public's job to pay extra to constantly fix that bridge , clearly a faulty design from the off and likely bad pre construction groundwork and investigation.
Was / is there something wrong with the stability of the land it's on. ( Deeper piles needed ? Bet it needs under pinned later !)
The contractor should be clobbered hard for this. Just open the Road , fgs.
By the time it's open , it will at this rate have to be resurfaced due to ' life after people ' lack of use , Eg surface ' greening over - if that could happen?.
What are the likely issues if left for say six more months ?.

I don't think there's any evidence for any of that. It's not "clearly" a faulty design, the problem is that parts were not built as designed. There's no indication that there is anything unusual about the land it's built on. And if there is something wrong with it, "just open the road" is the least responsible thing to do - in fact if there's any uncertainty about who is responsible then "just opening the road" can only be achieved by Transport Scotland accepting responsibility for the bridge, which is exactly what you're saying they shouldn't do.

[Bryn666]

It's still less than 12 months since politicians in Italy declared nothing wrong with a bridge that went on to collapse killing over 40 people.

I'm not surprised people are being cagey about opening the A90. However it is a damning indictment of construction contractors if there are critical build faults with the structure and heads should roll.

[Euan]

Yes the bridge is taking longer than expected to open, but the last thing we would want would be to have a similar incident happening there as what happened in Italy. It should stay shut until it is absolutely safe to be used, regardless of how long it will take. I agree that questions should be asked about why the faults have appeared in the first place, but excessive complaining from various figures simply about the bridge not being open on time will get us nowhere.

[A72]

there was Huge support, including from the ' Peebles campaign, now at the design and ' fly through ' stage , but reliant on the Borders rail.to be built . Trouble is the preferred route for that will mean they will Have to build a second Viaduct to allow double track, and double track , all the way North .

Do you have a source for this information?

[matt-thepie]

Also slightly off topic , why did the Northern section not be dualled to busy port Townsend , Peterhead.
Not sure if it is rail served but if not it should be a priority to end the Expressway at the Northeast coast.

Peterhead was removed from the railway network in the late 60s, followed by all rail links in Formartine and Buchan by the late 70s. It closed before the Fraserburgh line as the route was circuitous, heading as far north as Maud Junction (a small village rather than somewhere more sensible for a junction like Mintlaw) from Dyce and then branching off almost due East. A shorter branch from Ellon made it as far as Boddam, but never went any further and was lifted in the 50s. Peterhead is now fairly high on those towns-furthest-from-a-railway lists.

As far as the A90 goes, you'd probably have a case for dualling to the Toll of Birness, where the A952/A90 diverge (along with replacing it with some decent kind of junction), but after there, the traffic thins considerably and the odd overtaking lane or 2 would suffice. Having said that, it probably carries more traffic than some of the A96 sections which are being upgraded.

[Enceladus]

What precisely is the problem with the Don bridge? Is it something to do with the design or the materials involved in the construction?

I would imagine that about 65% of traffic leaving or passing by Aberdeen northbound would be going towards Inverness on the A96?

[roadtester]

What precisely is the problem with the Don bridge? Is it something to do with the design or the materials involved in the construction?

I would imagine that about 65% of traffic leaving or passing by Aberdeen northbound would be going towards Inverness on the A96?

Here you go:

https://www.roads.org.uk/blog/whats-wro ... een-bypass

[Hagbard]

What is it with the Scottish parliament and truly messed up Infrastructure projects .
1st the Trams, years over budget , half the length ( now being extended at further cost. By now ' New lines where due to be open or at start of works , Eg using old FRB outside lane).

The SNP tried to stop City of Edinburgh Council's tram project when they were first elected in 2007. Unfortunately they were a minority administration and were out voted by the other parties.

2, Borders Rail, half the double track required , based on Beeching style thinking also not built to the best length , Either Terminating at Melrose or better still Hawick ( giving the last leg to completion a very high chance ) , as for Melrose it's maddeningly close .
Could have reused old station and ' improved and moved the road to a better alignment and a better junction to boot, the park and ride could have remained at Tweedbank , that could have been an island as it is now the ' loop , ending just far enough to run an engine or two/three car DMU round . Single track to Melrose . A place unlike Tweedbank that has a fair population.

Had it cost any more it would not have been built at all. The Institute of Economic Affairs described the decision to build it as 'insane' due to it having a BCR of only 0.5. Total usage for the line as a whole is only in line with that forecast, albeit much higher from the Borders stations and much lower from the Midlothian ones.

And now this Bypass over a decade late in starting down to one man who moved anyway!.
By which time costs of things + Brexit and Carrillion.
Also not the public's job to pay extra to constantly fix that bridge , clearly a faulty design from the off and likely bad pre construction groundwork and investigation.
Was / is there something wrong with the stability of the land it's on. ( Deeper piles needed ? Bet it needs under pinned later !)
The contractor should be clobbered hard for this. Just open the Road , fgs.
By the time it's open , it will at this rate have to be resurfaced due to ' life after people ' lack of use , Eg surface ' greening over - if that could happen?.
What are the likely issues if left for say six more months ?.

None of that is the Scottish Parliament's fault either.

[djw1981]

The Midlothian example is interesting though - Shawfair hasn't had much of the housing completed yet and thus there is effectively a station in the middle of fields, but within the bypass. As local housing develops, I suspect ridership will improve.
The rest of midlothian is I suspect going to experience slow modal shift as Traffic congestion at Sherrifhall worsens, and especially during any building works.

Of the Midlothian stations areas (Newtongrange, Gorebridge and Eskbank/Bonnyrigg) Bonnyrigg and Gorebridge already had fairly good bus links into the centre of Edinburgh but also crucially IMO, passing the hospital and University on the way, and thus commuters to these from Midlothian will not be attracted by the railway taking them to Waverly.

[Euan]

What precisely is the problem with the Don bridge? Is it something to do with the design or the materials involved in the construction?

I would imagine that about 65% of traffic leaving or passing by Aberdeen northbound would be going towards Inverness on the A96?

Here you go:

https://www.roads.org.uk/blog/whats-wro ... een-bypass

Essentially the main problem with the Don Bridge seems to have been poorly aligned utility passages which have caused cracks to form in areas of the structure receiving too much stress.

[Westie]

Apparently the AWPR is currently all-purpose:

In the first instance it is important to highlight that the roads specified do not at this stage hold Special Road status as this will not come into effect until the entire AWPR route is opened and the Special Road Order is approved by Parliament. The legislation quoted was created for the design and build of the road detailing the boundaries and area of land covered by it.

The legislation for the special road scheme is as follows regarding commencement:

This Scheme may be cited as the A90 (Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route) Special Road Scheme 2010 and comes into force on the 28th day after the day on which it is approved by resolution of the Scottish Parliament.

I'm going to go out on a leg here and presume "approved by resolution" isn't necessarily referring to itself coming into force?

Also as far as I can tell, all class restrictions are held in the Special Road SSIs (which, according to the police, are not yet in force) but I'll look into this further.

[SuperLez]

FINALLY!
.
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/new ... next-week/

The final part of the bypass is to open next week. Exact date still to be announced.