M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

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Berk
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Berk »

trickstat wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 20:52
Berk wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 19:55I agree with the first part, but not the second. Why would people be wanting to make journeys from Manc/Liverpool/Stafford to Telford??
Maybe they are people from Telford wanting to get home?
No, it’s just about this presumption that it’s all about North-West/South traffic. Although Steven already pointed out the Wolverhampton aspect. And as I explained before, connections from the east to the West Midlands (especially this part) are quite dire at the moment.

By improving connectivity to the M54, you also provide faster access to Shropshire and on to Wales/the A5. And besides, it’s hardly making it difficult to access the M6N, on the contrary it’s making it easier!!

Well, easier than at present. If you go all out negative and strangle the thing at birth, you’d end up with another Catthorpe scenario that’s overdue to be fixed in 30 years time.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by trickstat »

I do agree that East-West in general are neglected. From where I live a tricky journey is to Herefordshire or Mid-Wales. This is a trip most likely to be done for leisure so many people would choose to take a straightish but slow route through the Heart of England rather than go down to the M25/M4 or up to the West Midlands because they feel the sheer misery of getting stuck there because of an incident is not worth the time it will save 4 times out of 5.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Steven »

Berk wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 23:21
Steven wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 20:31Unless you're trying to travel along A460, where there's now a string of roundabouts...
Which is all the more reason to support this project!! At least it will reduce the number of roundabouts in the long run.
Errr, no it won't. At present, there are two large roundabouts. If built as proposed, there will be one large roundabout and three small ones to travel along a major movement in the corridor.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Bryn666 »

It would probably shift a lot on to the A449, assuming Wolverhampton doesn't want the A460 south of the M54 as a major route any more.

The failure to properly think how all of the routes around the West Midlands link up is now painfully apparent.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

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The local council is to debate whether to support a motion that the council should lobby for a western extension of the M54 to Shrewsbury by reclassifying the A5. A rather speculative motion by a councillor who is perhaps trying to make a name for himself?

No details or cost estimates. Obviously it could be done by adding some emergency refuges to make the A5 similar to an ALR motorway and changing a lot of signs. The justification is the argument that 'blue line' to Shrewsbury would make the town more attractive for business. That may be true but I can imagine that it would be difficult to present a sound business case.

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https://shropshire.gov.uk/committee-ser ... 3881&Ver=4 (see item 15, motion 2)
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by c2R »

It should be a fairly cheap conversion, provided that the couple of field accesses are easily able to be closed off...
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Berk »

Sounds a bit like we’re going down the Ireland route (cheaply converting HQDC to motorway).

Can’t really see any problems, tbh.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Bfivethousand »

From the south, Shrewsbury is signposted off the M6 at 11A along a more than adequate motorway by way of several modern gantry signs.

From the north, all you get is a "For x follow y" approaching junction 15 from which traffic is eventually sent down the little old A53.

There can't be many destinations which are signed from opposing directions via such contrasting routes.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

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I think there are only two farm accesses, and layby provision is already quite generous. HE/DfT would probably want to fit their electronic gadgets before such an upgrade, which may be the main cost.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by jervi »

Well that section of the A5 is on that lovely list of roads that HE would like to become an expressway. If my memory serves me correctly, it also shows both the A5 (heading south around Shrewsbury) and the A49 heading north was also on that list.
I don't see it being an issue as long as that roundabout with the A49 is sorted out and an extra wide hard shoulder added. (For easy SM upgrade when the rest of the corridor is ready and requiring it)
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

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jervi wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 00:21 Well that section of the A5 is on that lovely list of roads that HE would like to become an expressway. If my memory serves me correctly, it also shows both the A5 (heading south around Shrewsbury) and the A49 heading north was also on that list.
I don't see it being an issue as long as that roundabout with the A49 is sorted out and an extra wide hard shoulder added. (For easy SM upgrade when the rest of the corridor is ready and requiring it)
It's doubtful that a hard shoulder would be added. And the roundabout has already been improved with signalisation and filter lane.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Steven »

Bfivethousand wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 23:56 From the south, Shrewsbury is signposted off the M6 at 11A along a more than adequate motorway by way of several modern gantry signs.

From the north, all you get is a "For x follow y" approaching junction 15 from which traffic is eventually sent down the little old A53.

There can't be many destinations which are signed from opposing directions via such contrasting routes.
Possibly controversial, but I don't believe Shrewsbury should be signed specifically at J10A, short of a "For places in Shropshire, follow the place also in Shropshire" sign.

Two reasons:
* The new-ish gantry signs at 10A are horribly cluttered and poorly designed - all stemming from the decision to add Shrewsbury to them
* Shrewsbury actually isn't particularly large or important - it only looks so on a map because everywhere else in Shropshire (other than Telford) is tiny. It is on the Major Towns and Cities dataset - but only just, and then only due to its workday population, not due to its resident population.
Last edited by Steven on Thu Sep 19, 2019 08:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Bryn666 »

Indeed - and people forget the reason the M54 was built was Telford not Shrewsbury.

I'd rather investment went towards providing a continuous dual carriageway to Ruabon rather than changing the colour of some signs on an already high quality section of A5.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

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Bryn666 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 07:52 Indeed - and people forget the reason the M54 was built was Telford not Shrewsbury.

I'd rather investment went towards providing a continuous dual carriageway to Ruabon rather than changing the colour of some signs on an already high quality section of A5.
Yes, yes and yes. For businesses, commuters, residents, holidaymakers, basically everybody you can think of, dualling that A5 to Ruabon is hugely more worthwhile than upgrading that short stretch of HQDC to motorway.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

Steven wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 07:19 Shrewsbury actually isn't particularly large or important - it only looks so on a map because everywhere else in Shropshire (other than Telford) is tiny. It is on the Major Towns and Cities dataset - but only just, and then only due to its workday population, not due to its resident population.
As the Shrewsbury bypass marks the point of divergence for the routes for North Wales (A5, leading to A483 and A55 for Llangollen, Conwy, Holyhead etc.) and Mid Wales (A458, leading to A470 and A487 for Welshpool, Machynlleth, Aberystwyth, Dolgellau etc.) Shrewsbury was probably considered as significant for route planning if you are approaching from the Midlands and the South.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Chris Bertram »

I may have done this before, but on the newish A5, all I can find in the way of access points are:

1) A point of access to the adjacent railway line near the Pelham Road overbridge, and
2) A turnround point, presumbably for the police, by where the River Tern flows under the road.

If there are/were any other accesses, then either I've missed them, or they're abandoned and overgrown.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

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^ Good point, I think people (including myself) are mistaking these for farm acceses. So physically all that needs to be done are signs and one or two ERAs.
danfw194 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:31
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 07:52 Indeed - and people forget the reason the M54 was built was Telford not Shrewsbury.

I'd rather investment went towards providing a continuous dual carriageway to Ruabon rather than changing the colour of some signs on an already high quality section of A5.
Yes, yes and yes. For businesses, commuters, residents, holidaymakers, basically everybody you can think of, dualling that A5 to Ruabon is hugely more worthwhile than upgrading that short stretch of HQDC to motorway.
It flipping well should be given it would cost hundreds of times as much! A more like-for-like comparison would be the benefits of the motorway upgrade vs the benefits of commissioning some reports about the dualling (but no actual road).
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by Chris Bertram »

jackal wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 18:28 ^ Good point, I think people (including myself) are mistaking these for farm acceses. So physically all that needs to be done are signs and one or two ERAs.
danfw194 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:31
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 07:52 Indeed - and people forget the reason the M54 was built was Telford not Shrewsbury.

I'd rather investment went towards providing a continuous dual carriageway to Ruabon rather than changing the colour of some signs on an already high quality section of A5.
Yes, yes and yes. For businesses, commuters, residents, holidaymakers, basically everybody you can think of, dualling that A5 to Ruabon is hugely more worthwhile than upgrading that short stretch of HQDC to motorway.
It flipping well should be given it would cost hundreds of times as much! A more like-for-like comparison would be the benefits of the motorway upgrade vs the benefits of commissioning some reports about the dualling (but no actual road).
There are already several lay-bys with emergency phones. They might need a bit of work to bring them up to standard. The railway access point might have to go, but give NR sufficient notice and they will be able to make alternative arrangements.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by jackal »

Yes, it's mostly there, but more might be needed for ALR standard, e.g. westbound in the middle section there's quite a big gap.
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Re: M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

Post by IAN »

The local council is to debate whether to support a motion that the council should lobby for a western extension of the M54 to Shrewsbury by reclassifying the A5.
Update - The motion was approved so we will see .....

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