M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

[Berk]

Like I say, you’re lucky if you can do faster than 10mph atm. But if the new link is built, that might change.

[Euan]

Overall, does more of the M54 traffic using the A460 wish to access the M6 Toll or the northbound M6? Whichever way round, the design of the junction at the M6/M6 Toll end will need to reflect on those facts.

[ais523]

Overall, does more of the M54 traffic using the A460 wish to access the M6 Toll or the northbound M6? Whichever way round, the design of the junction at the M6/M6 Toll end will need to reflect on those facts.

According to the consultants at the preferred route meeting, the majority of traffic's aiming for the M6 Toll, and the M6 North is a comparatively minor movement. I'm not sure which assumptions this is based on (e.g. if it takes the price of the toll into account).

I imagine that if the Western Orbital ever gets built, this would change considerably.

[Steven]

Overall, does more of the M54 traffic using the A460 wish to access the M6 Toll or the northbound M6? Whichever way round, the design of the junction at the M6/M6 Toll end will need to reflect on those facts.

It's not quite that simple - a fair amount of traffic also wishes to continue along A460. It's a real mash of strategic and more local traffic.

[Bryn666]

Overall, does more of the M54 traffic using the A460 wish to access the M6 Toll or the northbound M6? Whichever way round, the design of the junction at the M6/M6 Toll end will need to reflect on those facts.

According to the consultants at the preferred route meeting, the majority of traffic's aiming for the M6 Toll, and the M6 North is a comparatively minor movement. I'm not sure which assumptions this is based on (e.g. if it takes the price of the toll into account).

I imagine that if the Western Orbital ever gets built, this would change considerably.

Presumably this is because the preferred route to the M6 is via Gailey.

[jackal]

Did we actually get confirmation that MEL have pulled out? This seems in line with the Scheme Assessment Report:

As a result of complications in securing third party funding contributions for the scheme,
further assessment has been undertaken to review alternative cost saving options for the
preferred route Modified Option B(W). Modified Option B(W) (excluding M6 Toll Link)
was identified as a cost saving solution. This option is a variant of Modified Option B(W),
connecting to M6 J11 rather than M6 Toll Junction T8. Based on further assessment
Modified Option B(W) (excluding M6 Toll Link) has emerged as the preferred route option
for the scheme

But the PRA hints at a different story:

As part of the scheme, we’ll no longer include a
direct link from the M6 to the M6 Toll. The
free-flow connection to the M6Toll was subject
to other contributions. However, the level of
contributions available was not enough to meet
the cost of the free-flow link. We have amended
the connection to provide the improved value for
money solution we are presenting today. The route
presented today does not rule out providing a
free-flow connection at some point in the future [my emphasis]

If MEL are still part funding then I don't have as much of a problem with the slightly botched preferred route as a cut price M6 toll connection. If they're not funding at all then it's hard to see what point there is to it.

[Euan]

Overall, does more of the M54 traffic using the A460 wish to access the M6 Toll or the northbound M6? Whichever way round, the design of the junction at the M6/M6 Toll end will need to reflect on those facts.

It's not quite that simple - a fair amount of traffic also wishes to continue along A460. It's a real mash of strategic and more local traffic.

As the main connection between Cannock and Rugeley, the A460 will be of particular significance locally. I presume that the A460 and also sections of the A5 will act as popular alternatives to the M6 Toll if there is reluctance to pay the tolls.

[Euan]

Presumably this is because the preferred route to the M6 is via Gailey.

That would make sense, especially seeing as the A449 is dual carriageway it will be of more use than the A460 for Wolverhampton traffic heading for the northbound M6.

[Steven]

Presumably this is because the preferred route to the M6 is via Gailey.

That would make sense, especially seeing as the A449 is dual carriageway it will be of more use than the A460 for Wolverhampton traffic heading for the northbound M6.

Bryn means the currently signed (and trunk) route from M54 to M6 north is via A449 and A5.

As for traffic from Wolverhampton to M6 north, if you start in the city centre then yes, A449 every time. However, if you are starting from the eastern or northeastern side such as Wednesfield, then the generally preferred route is via A460.

[ais523]

The A449/A5 route is apparently rather overloaded/congested at the moment, though, so it would be nice if the new road could take some traffic off it.

[Big L]

Presumably this is because the preferred route to the M6 is via Gailey.

That would make sense, especially seeing as the A449 is dual carriageway it will be of more use than the A460 for Wolverhampton traffic heading for the northbound M6.

Bryn means the currently signed (and trunk) route from M54 to M6 north is via A449 and A5...

That's only a fairly recent thing; for most of my life M6(N) traffic was directed all the way up the M6 through Penkridge to J13.

[Berk]

So just to recap, the PRA featured free-flow links from M6T to M54 Link... And that’s about it??

Other connections like M6 (Central)-M6T will have to negotiate some sort of roundabout??

Still, better than nothing, I guess. I don’t think you’d get much traffic from Wolverhampton wanting to head east on the M6 Toll.

[Steven]

Still, better than nothing, I guess. I don’t think you’d get much traffic from Wolverhampton wanting to head east on the M6 Toll.

That rather depends upon where in the city you're starting from, and the time of day. The southern side is simply too far away, but the northern side is relatively close - for example, I live pretty much the same distance from the city centre as I do from the M6 Toll - and there's about three miles difference going from my house via M6 Toll or M6 to arrive at the J3A merge point. Even if you start at the city centre, the nearest point to access the motorway network isn't where people generally think it is - M6 J10 is about 5.5 miles away, whilst M54 J2 is only 4.5.

M6 J10A - J8 is still awful at peak times, and the Birmingham section isn't much better, so depending on the time savings, I consider it reguarly but the state of A460 usually means I don't save enough time for the cost to be worth it.

However, this is fairly moot as the section of M54 - M6 Toll Link north of M6 has now been deleted - though I'd still get most of the time savings with simply the M54 - M6 section.

[Berk]

M6 J10A - J8 is still awful at peak times, and the Birmingham section isn't much better, so depending on the time savings, I consider it reguarly but the state of A460 usually means I don't save enough time for the cost to be worth it.

However, this is fairly moot as the section of M54 - M6 Toll Link north of M6 has now been deleted - though I'd still get most of the time savings with simply the M54 - M6 section.

Ah yes, I see what they’ve done now. Presumably for cost saving reasons, but hopefully that should mean the new road will be built quicker, and open sooner. And recycling existing infrastructure.

And hopefully not too bad once in use.

[fras]

As far as I know, the free-flow links to the M6 Toll have been deleted because the owners won't cough-up any money. As it went bust the owners who lent the money and are now in charge are veryobviously in "mark time" mode waiting for somebody to buy it, hopefully the government. Why this road was ever built as a private toll road is a scandal really. But that was the last Labour government for you. The previous Conservative one under the hapless John Major was even worse. I think it was under him that we got the dreadful cheapskate junction M6?m1/A14 as I recall, but I may be wrong. Only 25 years to put it right !!

[Berk]

I guess strictly speaking, building the proposed road from M6 J11 to M54 J2 would meet today’s capacity needs.

Whether it will still be fit for purpose in 20 years time is another matter. But then you’d need to see a much bigger increase in traffic from M6N and the M6T wanting to access Wolves and Telford.

It’s probably a calculated risk on HE’s part.

At least there will then be a road to/from M6N which is reasonably fit for purpose. Which definitely cannot be said at the moment.

[Berk]

Just been checking the project’s pages on the HE website. It mentions there will be another round of consultation this year. Is that information correct, or is it referring to last year, in the run up to the PRA??

It seems a bit unnecessary to have a third round of consultation before the DCO application.

[JF2309]

As far as I know, the free-flow links to the M6 Toll have been deleted because the owners won't cough-up any money. As it went bust the owners who lent the money and are now in charge are veryobviously in "mark time" mode waiting for somebody to buy it, hopefully the government. Why this road was ever built as a private toll road is a scandal really. But that was the last Labour government for you. The previous Conservative one under the hapless John Major was even worse. I think it was under him that we got the dreadful cheapskate junction M6?m1/A14 as I recall, but I may be wrong. Only 25 years to put it right !!

Just so you know. For future reference, the M6Toll was conceived, designed and funded entirely under successive Conservative Governments and built under a Labour Government.
The last Labour Government from 2005-2010 had nothing to do with the M6Toll because it had already been built and opened between 1997-2005.

I know its tedious of me, but before you slag something/someone off at least know and understand what it is you’re slagging off.

[Berk]

Erm, that was the same government. No change of administration occurred.

Though OK, Labour rubber-stamped the plans, they were in a position to have mandated changes, if they'd wanted to.

[roadtester]

As far as I know, the free-flow links to the M6 Toll have been deleted because the owners won't cough-up any money. As it went bust the owners who lent the money and are now in charge are veryobviously in "mark time" mode waiting for somebody to buy it, hopefully the government. Why this road was ever built as a private toll road is a scandal really. But that was the last Labour government for you. The previous Conservative one under the hapless John Major was even worse. I think it was under him that we got the dreadful cheapskate junction M6?m1/A14 as I recall, but I may be wrong. Only 25 years to put it right !!

Yes, as Berk says, M6Toll was very much inherited from the Major government. It was pretty much ready to go when Labour got in in 1997. I suspect the choice at that stage was between going ahead, abandoning the scheme altogether, or putting it to the back of the queue for a rethink as a non-tolled project. In fact, I’m not sure, given contracts that may have already been in place, whether backing out was even an option - MEL had been awarded the scheme back in 1991:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M6_Toll