Answer: How then are you to interpret this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... eed-limits
Street lighting
49. Direction 11 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002
(TSRGD 2002), as amended, defines the requirements for the placing of
speed-limit repeater signs. This states that speed-limit repeater signs
cannot be placed along a road on which there is carriageway lighting not
more than 183 metres apart and which is subject to a 30 mph speed limit.
This direction applies regardless of how the speed limit has been imposed.
50. The Department will not make exceptions to this rule. This means it should
be assumed that, unless an order has been made and the road is signed
to the contrary, a 30 mph speed limit applies where there are three or
more lamps throwing light on the carriageway and placed not more than
183 metres apart.
Also later in the report, " The national speed limit on street lit roads is 30 mph.".
Answer: You are saying that "I don't think anything in a driver's general experience or education otherwise suggests they should be alert to the sudden presence of lamp posts as a signal to change speed alone".jnty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 15:39While the highway code is clear on what the letter of the law says with respect to restricted roads, I don't think anything in a driver's general experience or education otherwise suggests they should be alert to the sudden presence of lamp posts as a signal to change speed alone. Clearly, if you arrive at a town where the 30 sign has fallen down, you should be expected to realise pretty quickly you ought to be doing 30, but the law requires that this situation should never happen or be very quickly rectified. I can't think of a single other place where the commencement of a 30mph limit is indicated by lighting alone, bar where the sign has been damaged or stolen, although I'd be interested to hear about any places you've encountered this.
Well please tell that to the 1.2 million people a year that attend a Speed Awareness course where this point alone is laboured and is the biggest takeaway learning point of all. If you have not been on one then ask someone who has like a friend or a family member. Not many families are untouched by this course!
Answer : Mayo Avenue, Bradford https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.76862 ... 384!8i8192jnty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 15:39I've never seen evidence of drivers making this mistake on roads signed in this way, not least because the road design of these roads rarely suggests any need to reduce speed. I can understand how someone who had never driven could become confused when reading, say, the highway code; but it is obvious after even a short amount of rural driving that 30 signs are always used at the start of restricted roads and NSL at the end to indicate either 60mph or 70mph for cars as appropriate as per the TSRGD. This is why the consistency provided by the TSRGD is so important. In many ways it's actually far more important to what actually happens on the roads than any document or law, because in unusual situations, people react out of habit and routine; they don't pull over and call a lawyer!
See also West Yorkshire Police Freedom of Information requestwhere some asked the following:
https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/sit ... 2030%20mph.
Our ref: 7232/19
On A6177 Mayo Avenue, Bradford, between Manchester Road and Rooley Lane I would like to know
how many motorist have received speeding fines at this location in the past year
During the period 01/11/2018 to 31/10/2019 there were 10,014 speeding offences detected on the
location requested.
Please note 1,464 of these have been cancelled for various reasons.
and what has been done to reduce these numbers?
West Yorkshire Police have recently put up signs at either end of Mayo Avenue in Bradford to remind
drivers they are on a 30 mph road. These signs are not mandatory signs but are there to give motorists
more information to indicate they are still on a 30 mph road, the fact that the road is a restricted road by
a series of street lights not more than 183 meters apart is the legal standing for the speed limit of 30
mph.
I again will refer you to 10,014 speeding offences detected in just one year on thejnty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 15:39I'm not a road traffic lawyer but it would be an extremely bold judge who upheld a speeding conviction for an unlawfully signed restricted road which not even the Police acknowledge. There's also the practical difficulty that if the police don't think it's restricted, no prosecutions will take place. I would be fascinated however if you're aware of any convictions which have occurred in similar circumstances though.
location above.