"Drive on the left"

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Mark Hewitt
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Mark Hewitt »

c2R wrote:
Euan wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:28 I have very often travelled by road in the Highlands and am aware of the numbers of tourists from countries which drive on the right that certain areas attract. Sometimes I reckon they might even drive to all the way to Scotland from whichever country they live in and I would think that several hours of driving on the left through England and lowland Scotland will allow for plenty of time to adjust to the idea.
No... Several hours of driving on a different side of the road does not make up for years and years of learned behaviour, particularly where the several hours may have been on a motorway. Instinct takes over - the majority of such accidents will occur in the following scenarios:
1. driver pulls over to a layby on the opposite side of the road to look at a view, and sets off again on their usual side.
2. S1 widens to S2 and driver instinctively joins the wrong side
3. Roadworks reduce S2 to one lane, and driver is deposited on the wrong side of the road at the end of the works, and carries on.
4. Complex one way arrangements where the driver is on the wrong side already, and ends up continuting into a two way section.

The majority of these can be resolved with better road design, using paint for example to add more arrows, particularly in 1, 2, and 4 above.
5. And one of the main ones. Emerging from property access. Drive way, car park etc which is single lane. All too easy to pull out onto the wrong side if it’s quiet
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Andy P »

Mark Hewitt wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 15:15 And one of the main ones. Emerging from property access. Drive way, car park etc which is single lane. All too easy to pull out onto the wrong side if it’s quiet
I agree.

I've lived in Germany for several years after moving from the UK, I have a lot of experience of driving on both sides of the road, rarely with any problems.

And yet a few weeks ago I pulled out of my garage into the street where I live, as I have done hundreds of times before, and started driving on the left. :oops:

Fortunately, the street was empty, and I realised and corrected it very quickly, but it taught me that it's easily done even when experienced.
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c2R
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by c2R »

Euan wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 08:58The worst case scenario would be if the driver is at the front of the queue and there is no queue at the other end to guide them onto the correct side of the road.
And such a scenario isn't unlikely in the Highlands outside peak hours!
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by lefthandedspanner »

Owain wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 00:49The other day in Leeds I almost drove on the wrong side of the traffic island when turning right into this road! Why? A pedestrian was ambling across the road without looking, and I was preoccupied with not running him over. The reason he was crossing is because there was absolutely no traffic on that side of the island. I managed to stop when I saw that the stop line crossed the entire width of the carriageway, leaving me with nowhere to drive. I braked, and had to reverse a metre or so to be able to get around to the left of the island. It was a bit embarrassing, but as there was no traffic it wouldn't have done any harm if I'd just driven to the wrong side of the island, because there was no traffic (so long as I didn't run the guy over, which I'd already taken care not to do!).
Similarly, several years back I nearly drove onto the wrong side of this dual carriageway after spending a busy Saturday in Leeds. It was a combination of absentmindedness and fatigue, plus the fact there were no vehicles on the carriageway.
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Berk
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Berk »

Although I understand the momentary lapse involved, to me it shows such a loss of forethought, it’s like walking into a hole in the ground, or trapdoor.

Failure to observe of the greatest order. :|
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owen b
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by owen b »

In the absence of the usual cues, it's easily done, as others have said.

When I lived in Belgium in the 1990s I did it once. I had dropped someone off at their flat in a quiet side street in Brussels. With no traffic around and no road signs or markings I absent mindedly drove off on the wrong side of the road. Fortunately I was only driving slowly, I didn't meet any traffic, and realised my mistake within a few seconds. No harm done, and never repeated.

On a family holiday many years before that in France I was a back seat passenger when I realised we had turned right onto a semi-urban dual carriageway (not grade separated) onto the wrong carriageway :shock: . Fortunately the mistake was realised immediately, there was no oncoming traffic, and there was a barrier-free grass central reservation which served as the emegency escape back to the correct carriageway.
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Berk
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Berk »

Actually, I’m less worried about foreigners and tourists going momentarily astray than people who should know better. By that I mean Brits who are driving on the wrong side of the road.

Maybe they’re doing a turn in the road, and taking an inordinate amount of time to finish it off (I have seen people take up to a minute to finish turning round). Or overtaking a slow vehicle too slowly themselves.

Either way, if they assume the road will remain clear for them to finish, they shouldn’t. You need to be able to complete manoeuvres quickly, it isn’t safe to hang around.
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c2R
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by c2R »

Of course, this evening I met someone coming the wrong way who had done right turn from here: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.9698872 ... 312!8i6656

Clearly the driver had not noticed being in the wrong lane, and decided actually not to go down the motorway but instead to turn back towards the roundabout. Sigh....
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Berk
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Berk »

Surely the only way he could do that was by mounting the kerb :facepalm: ...
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Owain
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Owain »

lefthandedspanner wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 23:14Similarly, several years back I nearly drove onto the wrong side of this dual carriageway after spending a busy Saturday in Leeds. It was a combination of absentmindedness and fatigue, plus the fact there were no vehicles on the carriageway.
Been here three years, and I used to live near there .... but I never realised you could drive that way at all!

I've always gone right around the back of the hotel, using the whole of the one-way system to get to Crown Point, when I could have just used that cut-through. :facepalm:
Berk wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 00:11 Actually, I’m less worried about foreigners and tourists going momentarily astray than people who should know better. By that I mean Brits who are driving on the wrong side of the road.

Maybe they’re doing a turn in the road, and taking an inordinate amount of time to finish it off (I have seen people take up to a minute to finish turning round). Or overtaking a slow vehicle too slowly themselves.

Either way, if they assume the road will remain clear for them to finish, they shouldn’t. You need to be able to complete manoeuvres quickly, it isn’t safe to hang around.
There's no need to worry about me being a numpty on that score!

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nowster
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by nowster »

Owain wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 09:31 A former colleague compared being in my passenger seat to being in an episode of Starsky and Hutch.
Including entering by the windows and sliding across the bonnet?
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Owain »

nowster wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:25
Owain wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 09:31 A former colleague compared being in my passenger seat to being in an episode of Starsky and Hutch.
Including entering by the windows and sliding across the bonnet?
Said colleague did roll over the bonnet of my car for a laugh one night in Belfast, to my considerable displeasure.
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The Devil's Armpit
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by The Devil's Armpit »

owen b wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 00:06 On a family holiday many years before that in France I was a back seat passenger when I realised we had turned right onto a semi-urban dual carriageway (not grade separated) onto the wrong carriageway :shock: . Fortunately the mistake was realised immediately, there was no oncoming traffic, and there was a barrier-free grass central reservation which served as the emegency escape back to the correct carriageway.


When in the US I did a u-turn [ one of many, getting lost is part of the fun ] on a lonely stretch of single carraigeway and
I resumed my journey blithely driving on the left for a few hundred yards until the sight of a big SUV bearing down on me shook
me back to my rightful side of the road. :roll:
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OLD GIT
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Re:

Post by OLD GIT »

nowster wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 16:06
OLD GIT wrote:Beaten to it on the problem on Highland roads , but I'll keep stum on my opinion on whether we need these signs in English ( or whatever the southern natives speak) for visitors from southern parts :bulb:
You forget the many tourists who come over to look into the land of their ancestors.
" but I'll keep stum on my opinion on whether we need these signs in English ( or whatever the southern natives speak) for visitors from southern parts"
Visitors from North America, I can forgive. My Son's FIL is from LA. He was terrified of driving on our roads. But those who got their licence with the same rules as I did , I cannot forgive. As those reside up north will ask, do we need signs in large print ( or whatever the southern natives speak) .
Two simple rules. One from Uncle( he survived North Africa as a Tank driver)- "IF in doubt, STOP and look".
From dad ( who fought at Monte Cassino,) - better to be a live coward ,than a dead hero. ( His war medals and service books don't say that).
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Re: Re:

Post by nowster »

OLD GIT wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 13:50As those reside up north will ask, do we need signs in large print ( or whatever the southern natives speak).
How about ones in Braille too? :twisted:
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OLD GIT
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by OLD GIT »

Might baa a good idea ,as we've had two problems over the years I've lived up there - the woolies who only say BAA, and those from dahn sath. Who speak a different version of what we talk.
perhaps we need the guide dogs to oby the signs :D
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Nwallace »

OLD GIT wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 13:12
Nwallace wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 21:36
OLD GIT wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 13:14 Beaten to it on the problem on Highland roads , but I'll keep stum on my opinion on whether we need these signs in English ( or whatever the southern natives speak) for visitors from southern parts :bulb:
They also don't know the hierarchy of the road users in the highlands

Postie
Wildlife
Locals
HGV Drivers
Sassenacht Scots
Tourists

I've not yet come across someone driving on the wrong side thankfully, but I still regularly come across people who ignore the signs that say the vehicle on the left needs to pull into the passing place. Although it may be something to do with me being comfortable with driving to visibility on them, or that they've recently met the postie.
I used to live at the end of possibly the only A road( in theUK) which was single track, and we saw it regularly. We never had signs to say vehicle on left, but the signs said " use passing places to allow overtaking". So perhaps that was what confused them. Local police had answer. One of them met a tourist when he was not in uniform .The tourist had shot past a passing place and refused to reverse,saying they couldn't. Police response was to pull out warrant card and remind them that ability to reverse part og holding a car licence.
Personally I'd place Tourists at top of list. A lot of them are more "scenic gourmets"
Hm, not sure about that, their dithering usually results in irateness from anyone above them in the list pretty quickly, lights and horns are handy.
I also forget there is one class of traffic that is above even the postie...

The Timber Lorry.



I'm hoping to be riding PBP this summer, and from my experience riding at my friend's in the Netherlands remembering to be on the wrong side of the road concerns me most, thankfully I'm likely to rarely be out on my own.
It's not that I don't know that I should be on the right hand side of the road, or forget, it's pure instinct, particularly at junctions like this one, and it's got a reminder on it.
https://goo.gl/maps/1Mwhz5m2xTqDkg5X6
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Runwell »

Leaving Harwich on the A120, the signs are in English/German/French/Swedish. Amazingly no dutch translation despite most services being to/from the Hook of Holland!
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lefthandedspanner
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by lefthandedspanner »

Runwell wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 23:37 Leaving Harwich on the A120, the signs are in English/German/French/Swedish. Amazingly no dutch translation despite most services being to/from the Hook of Holland!
Many Dutch people speak better English than most native speakers. Which, in fairness, is not difficult.
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Vierwielen »

lefthandedspanner wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 00:36
Runwell wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 23:37 Leaving Harwich on the A120, the signs are in English/German/French/Swedish. Amazingly no dutch translation despite most services being to/from the Hook of Holland!
Many Dutch people speak better English than most native speakers. Which, in fairness, is not difficult.
Some years ago, I went to the D-Day museum at Arromarches. Before the film show started, there was a vote as to which sound track should be used - English, Dutch or German (every alternate show was in French!). Headphones were avialable for the languages that were not being used. I noticved that many of the peopel who had voted for the Dutch sound track, opted to listen to the English soundtrack rather than listen to Dutch via headphones.
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